Yes David, being welsh explains it all !
I don't mind a bit of rain and I don't mind a bit of wind but in your neck of the woods you seem to get the two together sans cesse !
I had five years in Normandy in the '70s and I still haven't recovered !
Eh bah oui! Today for example clear blue sky, pluie neant, will be stars to die for tonight! We've had a very dry few weeks. Yes it does rain but they are usually very fine small drops but it can be quite persistent and the wind drives it horizontal. It's not for those who crave the sun and high temperatures I do admit. I am, though, half Welsh, and that could explain my love affair wit the place!
Sounds idyllic David and I would be interested if you could guarantee me one day WITHOUT rain in Finisterre !!!
BTW I am British and a landlord but we do have a vacancy in our nearby cottage for say six months. It''s very simple, in nice countryside and about 20 minutes walk from a working village in a Parc Naturel. The ideal tenant would be a single artist or writer who wants peace and quiet. Don't expect luxury, far from it. We would require a proper contract and deposit, and declare the income.
I think you're right. Rental income is more important to the French and they do a lot to preserve it.
I'm not saying there aren't good and bad on both sides - of course there are, but you would think that when a LL gets somebody in their property who pays the rent and is willing to more than meet them halfway, then they would appreciate it and not avoid their responsibilities. Yet they don't - it's 'much wants more.' They actually make life a lot more difficult (in some cases impossible) and in the end they shoot themselves in the foot because they lose the income from the tenant, still have a house that's not selling and watching the weeds and damp sprout up.
It's very short-term thinking.
Some English people in our village rented a property to a Frenchman who never paid even a month's rent and now has winter time security of tenure. The tenant tried to hoodwink the oil company to deliver oil at the landlord's expense. I had a French tenant in my cottage who was demanding more and more work to save him heating costs. I gave up after I had supplied a new front door, a new wood burner and new windows. I explained that the idea was there would be some income. He then started complaining about damp (the house is a few yards from a river) and he's leaving now. He said he had lung problems from the damp (and did not notice him writing a cheque for 125 euros for cigarettes in the tabac and he never opened windows or aired the house. I don't think it's a question about English landlords, it's about a reasonable balance between landlord and tenant. In France you don't get much capital appreciation in property so rental income is more important.
Agencies take around 5% of the rent, they also get you a reasonable deal on rent insurance, know the law, have contacts with builders and find you solvent tenants. I know they have a bad reputation, but there are some good ones around and they are more likely to deal with court cases speedily, should things go that far. You are also less likely to have an empty house between tenants so in the long run, it probably works out cheaper.
I'd say it's money well spent.
Oh, somehow I'm glad it's not just me!
Yes, the property is always renovated (but cheaply) and could you make it better for us when you leave please. Sort out the damp and then re-paint it, the ponds, the trees, the peeling wallpaper, the crappy paint job, fencing. Oh, and let's not forget cleaning the oven and the fire out - because they always seem to forget to do that when you move in! Then pay for any chimney's sweeping, blocked drains (none of these things needed doing before you moved in!) and mend the shower which only dribbles at you (of course!)
And let's not forget replacing the gas bottle with a fortnight's worth of gas in it with a full gas bottle and re-stocking their woodpile which wasn't stocked in the first place.
They aren't all the same but I certainly think many British have the mentality towards renters that they see the renter as a way of buffering their coffers and taking no responsibility. They see it as quick, easy money and they are simply doing everyone a big favour by letting them live there.
Your local estate agents are usually ok. They take their commission of course but you 'usually' find life easier when you can deal with a 'middle-man' I find.
Oh my Goodness Karen!! Your reply sounded just like my experience!!
My first place here in France was a substantial GIte (only place I could find to rent before arriving). I took it on a long-term rental. I was told by the Brit owner that there was a gardener for the 3acres of land, a ride on would also be provided, oh and there was a 'pool'. When arriving, I found koi in the 'splash pool' which was a cheap above ground pool which had been put in a dugout hole and was collapsing in on itself. The gardener never materialised and the ride-on had a dud battery so whenever it was to be used it needed jumpstarting from my car. Once the fish were put in the pond, the splash pool was useless and needed a new liner and I found out to my cost that the pond pump tripled my electricity bills but I was expected to cover this despite the fact I was never told of any of HER fish that needed looking after, paying for and feeding at my cost.
Later I found out that the central heating did not work correctly and I was going through nearly 200litre of oil a week. The dishwasher was useless among many other items that did not function. I was paying a fortune for this place and when I told her of these things that did not work, I was asked to go and sort it out for her at various places. I am not retired and have to work during the day (unlike her) and did not have the time for this. I would NEVER rent from a Brit again. And yes, she had it on the market trying to sell it because her original plan of retiring over here and living in it had changed. She wanted a fortune in rent and somebody to fix it up for her too!!
Steer well clear of Brit landlords I say!!
I've had rotten experiences, no doubt about it - but there are good landlords out there.
Just learn by my mistakes. You get everything up front. If they walk off with any documentation you smell a rat straight away. You need to be with them when meter readings are done. You need to have someone look over your contract - any Mairie's office will do that. If they see a glaring error or silly clause they will point it out. Don't move in or hand over any monies until you have all the pieces in your hand. It might delay things a little, but if you can wait, then do.
I know it all seems pretty basic stuff and you would think that the procedure is somewhat straightforward and I am sure if you go through a notaire or whatever it is. But always be aware that some people out there are looking for an angle and protect yourself from the start.
I wish others would join in with this discussion.
We are looking to do a long term rental ideally 79/85 borders and Karen has me worried.
I found them by a certain forum - not this one!
It doesn't work like that though, does it.
How many people who are new to France are going to be able to go to a police station and report it? They still need a home remember.
How many people have got a scanner handy - you are supposed to get your copy and you aren't expecting someone to walk off with it. When they do you think it is a genuine mistake.
I've just got my latest contract returned, which I signed.
Funnily enough it hasn't got my signature on it - in fact it's not got anyone's.
Are we playing the tax avoidance game again?
And you also have to remember that these people are nice, really nice. They really want to help. They understand France and the French ways and they understand what it's like to be new. They only want to help you...
I must admit I saw someone else's post up here a while ago and the first rule was 'avoid the Brit that approaches you to help, when you first arrive.' I'd endorse that wholeheartedly.
Of course not all Brits are like this - of course they aren't. Look at the stuff that you've linked me to. You are going through the process properly and meeting your responsibilities.
I would though advise anyone now that if they have a contract that has been drawn up by the owner or manager or whoever, to trot down to the nearest Mairie and have them give it the once over. Even if you don't know where a notaire is or anything else, you can always find the Marie! Private contracts are different from the housing contracts drawn up by the Mairie but they will point out any glaring irregularities!
I did check the inventory and then signed it.
When they were leaving she picked it up with her paperwork (I think this happened when her husband took me outside to show me around)
I kept phoning and asking for it back and it was later returned. Remember you have no need to think anything would be wrong...
A couple of weeks later I was scanning through it and started to look around and stuff wasn't on there that had been originally. It was when I got to the missing fridge/freezer that I knew I was sat slap bang in the middle of a con.
Yet the inventory had 'my' signature on it.
So, here's my tip of the day (or two tips)
When signing anything sign each page - the law (in France) demands this anyway.
And do not use your normal formal signature. Make it difficult to copy - lots of loops and forward and backward slants.
I think you are spot on, David.
I have, only once, been given a receipt for rent - the rest have been under duress and I have had to put it in front of them to sign - oh, and they don't like their 'real' address being on it.
I have, in all truth, had my signature forged on an itinerary of household items - the first, was 'accidentally' taken by the aforementioned 'advisor' or 'manager' depending on which day of the week it was. The 'new' one, had lots of items missing. Good job I noticed before I left the property or I'd have been accused of stealing little things - like a fridge/freezer!
I actually think they are worse here than in the UK - and that's because people are completely vulnerable when they first land if they haven't got the language skills or a good understanding of the region or French way of doing things. To some parasites we are potential 'victims' and these situations are well thought through in advance.
Thanks, Debra - I will be going over that tomorrow!
Look in Sud Ouest or your regional newspaper. Use proper immobiliers. Avoid Anglos as far as possible.Drive round your locality there are always lots of sign for propriétés à louer. Unfortunately the precarity of shorthold tenancies in the UK has led Anglos to think they can behave in France as they do in UK but when they find the tenant has protection they whinge and whinge and whinge. You can rent a garage in UK as a dwelling with impunity but here you could be charged for renting a property outwith the normes of dignity.
... and in English!
I would certainly go to a notaire to get the contract done. So far I've had two 'experts' one British (who was advertising herself as an advisor to newcomers) and one French - and the contracts were a complete pig's ear. Not worth the paper they are written on.
I've never gone through an agency to rent, but then I have dealt with immobiliers and they ... well...
If you do it the 'French' way, then I think it will be done properly. It is when the Brits try and cut corners and make themselves out to the advantage that things go wrong. It's like any other, it's a business deal - and I think it has to be viewed that way. Some Brits seem purely and simply to want to take advantage of newcomers to France who are struggling with the language and procedures in general - and they seem to home in on these people.
It does make me laugh when I get the email notifications through of a response. Sometimes they get cut off in funny places!
Well, I wouldn't exclude a landlord because of nationality but ... heck, I've some lousy experiences. Trying to get paperwork off them is a nightmare - they want deposits, they want rent, they want you to redecorate their houses, and, if possible, refurnish them from new. But they don't want to supply little things like signed contracts. Oh, and of course, these properties are always for sale - and if they didn't have a tenant they would sell it. It's always the renters fault that no one wants to view...
They know all the laws and none of the responsibilities.
Please, don't start me off - I just think the British have a different attitude toward renters. In France, as in many other countries, renting is a big part of the housing market and tenants are afforded some protection. In the UK, it's seen as something with a lot less permanency and we have the issues with short term contracts etc.
I know my first house was rented. I rented it for 5 years. Short term contracts were not all the vogue then. I paid my rent, I got my rent book and I saw the landlord once during the whole 5 years. No problems at all.
I've never rented from the French so I can't say I have experience of that side of things - but I have rented from the Brits and it's not something I would rush into again.
Sorry, I forgot to say, thanks!
Oh, and the Brits don't want to pay tax - that's why they will fight to the death not to give you a signed contract.
One house I 'rented' and was promised a contract. Never materialised. Then I was told I could have one (gee thanks) if I signed up for 5 years. Then that little offer was rescinded. Then he demanded another 500 euros off me or he was going to throw me out. Kept my deposit and the 500 euros in the end - even though I've got the paperwork to say he agreed to pay me back.
You see the landlord was all shaken up because he wanted to sell the property and it was my fault he couldn't sell (he couldn't decide which he wanted more, the house sale or my rent) - 18 months later and it is still sat there on the market... good!
Oh, and they don't like giving receipts for rent. You have to make it all out and make them sign it. Oh, and they'd like cash, please. No. Not any more.
Meanwhile the cheeky so and so is living at his girlfriend's address while she claims benefits.
Not bad, eh?