Now that’s an answer, Geof.
Much better than your previous reply which, to be honest, does not convince as some of his companies ARE based in the UK & one of them DID sue, not tried, & was successful, but not (that I can find) “several times”.
I can accept that he might not have a shiny halo but when trashing someone I would prefer that people stuck to close to reality & not embellish to make a stronger case.
That aside, I feel that the likes of Sir Philip Green are MUCH worse. I think that at least Sir B really does have his employees welfare at heart (as well as his own!)
But is anybody ‘bashing’ or ‘trashing’ Branson? I can’t see anything that’s been said of him here, by way of simply raising questions about whether he should receive UK government support, that isn’t true (unless you want to split hairs about the registered office locations of subsidiary companies, or raise ad hominem issues, etc - none of which affect the substantive - and accurate - points that have been made).
Do you think that any bank would consider an airline good risk at the moment?
Touché 
2 Likes
I think that when you see things like the article Mark Robbins posted (don’t know its origin) there is a definite anti Branson bias. There are plenty like it.
Finding a news article that reports even handedly is quite hard nowadays & the public are easily swayed. Dare to admit that one has read a Daily Mail article & just watch the criticism, judgements & pidgeonholing appear! Some can find it quite intimidating & it can feel like a sort of censorship - people can be scared to express an opinion & that should not be.
Generally the replies on this thread are polite & fair & I don’t expect everyone to share my perspective. That would be boring.
Although I have never met the man I have benefitted from his actions - I bought a copy of “Tubular Bells” & enjoyed Peter Gabriel et al - while contributing to his fortune, something I do not regret, it was a two way street after all.
I am no accountant but I understand his wealth to be asset rather than cash based. I have a friend in a similar but much smaller position. When I visit my friend I am impressed by his house & the “toys”, many of which he has had for years. His 5 Sherman tanks in his collection were bought at a time when £10.000 would buy a good example, this year you would need £200,000 to buy one. Unfortunately Tesco’s don’t accept them as payment as they won’t fit in the till.
I think this article from Forbes is fair as it looks on both sides. https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddawkins/2020/03/19/virgin-billionaire-branson-attacked-in-parliament-over-staff-pay-during-coronavirus-crisisbut-employees-remain-supportive/
Let’s not mention the football clubs who will use the Government’s furlough scheme to pay their employees.
RB is now ramping up the pressure on the government by suggesting VA could go into administration if he can’t get additional funding.
This is interesting in the context of this discussion…
The question should be “Is the loan for the benefit of Sir B or for the employees of Virgin Atlantic?”
Does the UK really need to lose 10,000 tax payers AND add another 10,000 to the list of those claiming benefits?
2 Likes
It’s not really that simple.
The real question is “Does the world need so many airlines?” If we get a vaccine and it becomes possible to fly again, will people want to? If so, the industry will expand to fill the need and experienced personnel will find work, though not necessarily with their old employer.
Bailing out a company just to get a fraction of the money back in tax doesn’t do anything for the economy. Cheaper to give them unemployment benefit.
1 Like
I think the number of employees is way below 10K now. Lending VA £500 million is a huge gamble for the government and works out at around £60,000 per employee so if it were to happen the company had better stay in business for many years.
A bit of history for those too young to remember -
Laker Airways was a wholly private, British independent airline founded by Sir Freddie Laker in 1966. It was originally a charter airline flying passengers and cargo worldwide. Its head office was located at London Gatwick Airport in Crawley, England.
It became the second long-haul, low-cost, “no frills” airline in 1977, operating low-fare scheduled services between London Gatwick Airport and New York City’s John F. Kennedy Airport (after pioneering Icelandic low-cost carrier Loftleiðir). The company did not survive the recession of the early 1980s and operated its last flight on 5 February 1982, the day it went bankrupt.
1 Like
But it is a loan, Tim. The company would pay it back & treat it like any other commercial loan…
I would understand more if the company was asking for a hand-out.
And if the company went bust after a year the UK government (aka as the taxpayer) would be £500 million down plus 8/9K people will be signing on, quite a risk.
1 Like
But the financial world has no confidence that the airline industry will return to its previous level of activity and nobody knows when ordinary people will be allowed to fly abroad on holiday. If it looked like a good bet he would get a loan from the banks.
After Carillion, the UK government will be very wary of backing lane ducks.
Didn’t stop them lending to Easyjet though,
But not Flybe.
But I have a sad story to tell you.
One of our granddaughters was within days of qualifying as a commercial pilot when the lockdown began. Her father put up his house as collateral for the loan for her training. Could be a financial disaster for both of them. Nobody’s bailing them out.
3 Likes
Branson is in a bit of a pickle 
1 Like
Now, there’s a name from the past - Sir Freddie Laker and his Carvair (CABAir) service from Southend.
Another magical self made man by all accounts like Sir Richard - shame if his enterprise has to go…
SF used the same Aviation Medical Officer as I did for sign-offs and had some splendid stories to tell about the penny pinching old rogue 
1 Like
Nope because they are a better risk, they make profits but VA don’t, load factor is around 92% whereas VA’s is 79% and EJ is growing as a business, nuff said.
2 Likes
Aren’t they different market segments though @tim17.
How does that impact on your view?
SqueezyJet are short haul but VA is long haul - that must surely have some impact?
All about risk Graham, VA have been struggling for a couple of years.