Brexit going to be 'cataclysmic' for expats!


(Catharine Higginson) #82

Hi Tim
Your comment breaches our T&C - please desist from making personal comments in future.

(Tim Burton) #83

Hi Cat,
Okay, in referring to “you” as being patronising I was wrong and I offer my apologies. It would have been better to describe the “comment” as patronising. However if you look at my contributions to the site they are generally responses to requests for help with tax issues, for which I have been thanked. That seems to me to be a proper purpose of the site i.e. to help each other. I find it disconcerting when the site is used by those in charge of its operation to make cryptic one liners that recommend, inter alia, punishment of one’s countrymen/women for no reason that I can discern. What was their offence? They were invited to vote in a free and fair election (just like the French and Irish) and, they voted to leave a group that made provision for just that in Article 50. The French and Irish voted similarly to limit EU powers. The difference is that the EU simply invited the French and Irish re-run the election to get the result they wanted. Like Mr Martin, my wife and I live happily in France and value the French way of life. There is however much that is valuable in British society and one of those is to live under a parliamentary democracy. It was the last chance the Brits had to make their point, and they took it.

(Simon Armstrong) #84

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - I find it a complete juxtaposition that a UK immigrant living in France (and ‘valuing the French way of life’) could possibly support Brexit. Weird.

(Anna Watson) #85

I know we don’t agree on this Simon - I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again: there’s a difference between being in favour Brexit (which I am not), and believing that it’s right that the future of the UK should be decided by the Brits who live there rather than the Brits who have chosen to leave (which in theory I do believe - admittedly, sticking to that belief is not easy when they seem to me to be making such a pig’s ear of it, but I try to reserve judgement on that).

(Tim Burton) #86

As Ms Watson says: Its about democracy. You don’t have to agree with the position, in order to defend the right of those who espouse it, to voice their opinion. Also, even the most hard headed Remainer would, surely, see there is some point in the arguments of those who voted to leave - however inconvenient for us who have chosen to live in another EU country. Like Ms Watson I’m not that impressed with the way it is being handled, on either side.

(Catharine Higginson) #87

Thanks for the apology Tim!

Personally I don’t think it was actually that democratic…

(Anna Watson) #88

“Je ne suis pas d’accord avec ce que vous dites, mais je me battrai jusqu’à la mort pour que vous ayez le droit de le dire”, as Voltaire famously didn’t say…

(Simon Armstrong) #89

Mmmmmmm…I think that some UK immigrants living in France have never mentally left the UK. Maybe that’s where the confusion arises?

(Tim Burton) #90

Why would you think that in the context of this conversation? Where is the “confusion”? Oh I get it— anyone who disagrees with the view you take is “confused”.

(Simon Armstrong) #91

That’s no the case at all - I’ve obviously not made myself clear.

The confusion I suggested is that possibly felt by UK immigrants in France who have chosen to live in a country that extols the virtues of the EU whilst, at the same time, supporting Brexit which is a firmly anti-EU stance. Furthermore, I am simply suggesting that such people have physically, but not mentally, left the UK.

And just to clarify, I’m allowed to express my views, just like you can yours.

(Anna Watson) #92

I freely admit to having confused feelings over Brexit, but mostly I just wish people would act civilised and stop piling up all the negativity and hate and making it so conflictual. I was in the UK t’other week and the newspaper headlines were about “the Brexit war”. For goodness sake, how is that going to make the negotiations any easier?

(Tim Burton) #93

Nothing I have written suggests you are disentitled to express a view. The French, as a country, do not extol the virtues of the EU, as is evidenced by their voting history on EU matters. It is very clear that there is a division of opinion on “europeanisation” in both France and the UK.

(Anna Watson) #94

So if Wilders had won the Dutch elections and the Netherlands had voted to leave the EU, would you feel the same about that as you do about the UK leaving? Because on the face of it, it’s exactly the same scenario - a member state has decided to leave. Or is your view influenced by the fact that you are British, and you would feel less strongly about NL exiting?

(Tim Burton) #95

Yes, absolutely. I cannot understand why the prime minister is not preparing the country for the cost of Brexit. I find the attitude of the EU functionaries equally difficult to comprehend. They could have recognised the anxieties of the EU migrants into the UK and agreed to a preliminary agreement about the respective rights of all expats. But no, the Germans, alone apparently in the 27, refused to consider the idea.

(Simon Armstrong) #96

Anna - as an immigrant I feel exactly the same way. Both campaigns were run on a predominantly anti-immigration ticket. Therefore, I’d be a hypocrite to feel otherwise.

(Susanne D'Arcy) #97

I so agree…whilst I admire the queen etc… I think the monarchy should be lower key as in Spain. We love being Europeans, travelling easily into Italy or Spain and every trip back to Blighty makes us feel less and less English. Having lived here since 2001 and holidayed since 1989… we are applying for citizenship. A few friends have already successfully done so and others in the process of so doing…
At least we’ll be doing something positive and are backed by French friends here…

(Harry Fawcett) #98

I am an eu citizen but also a french resident, married to a french woman and my kids also are french.

I worry fr others for brexit but am not worried for it for me.

I do stress over my private pension and my 2 company pensions and my tate pension but thats 30 years away yet.e