But you say that… Remember blue passports and 9/10th of the globe being pink and 5G and Uncle Ben’s… Sovereignty, Sovereignty, Sovereignty (honestly I am not racist)!
Now Ben’s Original after someone realised decades too late that the presentation might just be a tiny bit racist.
Thank you @graham and @Eddie for reminding everyone of that. I didn’t engage with that person at the time and I don’t intend to now.
Take care both of you
Izzy x
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But I thought that was a comprehensive standard reply why Brexit was a good thing!
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Ah, sorry… :slaps forehead:
Can I just point out here…
That yes, everyone is entitled to a view. But, if you are planning to post something that the majority of the readership of this site are fundamentally opposed to, then please be prepared for people to challenge your views.
This is not ‘being knocked back’ - it is simple debate. And as Brexiteers are in a minority here you must expect more than your fair share of challenges being made concerning your opinions.
If you are happy to stand by what you believe in, then go for it! But don’t be surprised when people disagree with you and ask you to qualify your statements.
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Interesting how people’s perceptions change, according to a poll this summer, 35% of people want to press ahead with Brexit, while 58% want to rejoin the EU. Johnson must be so relieved that coronavirus is drawing attention away from the Brexit process.
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Note also John the centrists made exactly the same mistake again when Swinson committed the ridiculously circular mistake of refusing to form a minority government with Labour because others would refuse to join a minority government with Labour! A couple of days later, even some of the Tory rebels said they would have. This, and the centrists’ errors around the 2017 election discussed earlier in this thread, were I believe the 2 moments that actually enabled the hard brexit we are now due.
To be clear, they did not intend this outcome. Some, I’m sure - the Guardian writer Freedland springs to mind - knew what they were doing but felt that a hard brexit was preferable to a Labour government, but most - probably including Swinson - were well-meaning but politically naive.
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I will concede that the 2019 election presented an opportunity that was badly mishandled - though, as usual hindsight offers insights that were not so apparent at the time.
The first and arguably biggest mistake, of course was to allow Johnson to go to the country with his “Oven Ready Deal” - but there had been genuine concern about the possibility of dropping out of the EU with no withdrawal agreement and the real fear that, should the Tories get back in they would refuse to ratify the WA. That would actually be worse then the current situation as the WA did, at least, secure citizens rights and some sort of workable solution for NI - of course it seems that Johnson never really intended to honour the WA; we were well and truly had, I’m afraid - and yes, the irony is that in trying to prevent “no deal” at the time “no deal” now might be more likely.
The lack of a formal coalition also, I suspect, enabled a larger Tory majority - had Labour, the Lib Dems and the other minor centre/centre-left Remain leaning parties stood a single candidate against the Conservatives in every seat with a chance I am sure they would have won a few at least.
However the coalition ultimately would have been fragile, it is not even certain that they would have won but there was only ever broad agreement amongst the likely constituents that “no deal” was a bad idea and no real consensus as to how to exit the EU. They knew what they did not want to do but little idea of what they did want to do and every chance that reaching agreement would continue to elude them. There was also a real chance of a hung parliament which would have just lead to more interminable stalemate.
I honestly think that it is too simplistic to assume that “had the centrists got their act together” we’d now be moving towards SM/CU membership, and - as I’ve previously stated - I’m not clear how viable that would have been at the end of the day.
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Actually, the Police Pension Scheme being “contracted out” of SERPS (State Earnings Related Pension Scheme) was a pretty good deal. We paid a lower State Pension contribution but the money went into the occupational pension scheme that provides two thirds of final year’s pay as an index linked pension with widows benefits as well. One also has to consider that because of the age of a person when entering the scheme, and because it is payable after 30 years service, some people have been able to receive the occupational pension for up to 16 years before becoming eligible for the State Pension.
In my own case, my State Pension has been reduced by £1.18p a week due to having been “contracted out”, but the benefits of the enhancement of the occupational pension far outweigh that loss.
Readers may also wish to know that the UK government is happy to pay the State Pension directly into a foreign bank account (in the local currency) virtually anywhere in the world, and the exchange rate used is also favourable.
Depending on the local bank chosen by the recipient there does not necessarily need to be any charge or fee levied by that bank in respect of receiving the money.
So interesting to read everyone’s opinions and while I don’t agree myself with @Robert_Hodge opinions on Brexit I totally agree with an earlier poster that has commended him on his consistently polite responses / replies even when he has had people being very rude to him. I think that it says something about our community that Robert still feels that it is interesting / helpful / scintillating enough to still be a contributing member even when the rest of us (and even Cat and James who have made clear the stance of the forum politically) make it clear that our views are other than his. Forums should be about free speech and listening to others opinion and I appreciate that most of us are able to take on board ‘the other side’ and discuss it without being personally nasty to someone who states his beliefs in a polite manner. It is an awful situation, I have family who voted for Brexit and I find it very difficult, we are all struggling, we shouldn’t cold shoulder someone in the community because they don’t agree with the rest of us (unless they are rude and obnoxious of course 
).
good night all, sleep well,
Tory (short for Victoria - no political connotations in Oz and have your ever heard Vicky in an Aussie accent??? )
Have a lovely evening all
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I think Robert genuinely believes the UK will benefit from leaving the EU but at the same time he also enjoys living in France. Many people can’t square that because they see themselves as ‘European’ first and foremost rather than being a Brit who just happens to live in a European country.
As for being a socialist leaning forum, not sure as I reckon most are politically in the centre ground which is where Labour are heading.
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When I first worked in the NHS it was for just under five year & the the pension rules at the time meant that I was repaid my contributions on my departure (current rules are two years). This was 1983 & I was under 30. At the time it seemed like a nice windfall of about £800 however I would be much better off today if it had stayed in my pension. I had definitely been paying lower NI contributions as along with my contribution refund I was put back into the same situation as if I had never contracted out & instead was retrospectively enrolled in SERPS for those years. When I was nearing state pension age I confirmed this both with NHS Pensions & DWP.
Back on topic…
Today marks the start of the final round of Brexit trade talks. Both sides are ´optimistic ´ that a deal can be reached. Even that sniveling little rat Gove is hopeful, should we be worried ?
That snivelling rat made a speech yesterday where he avowed that the problematic clauses will stay in the IMB - which means the deal quite likely won’t be ratified by the European Parliament.
Don’t worry Robert, the mythical sovereignty will fly out the window when the real poverty comes in the door. It’s just a matter of time 
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I’m sure that you don’t expect me to agree with you on that point John, so we shall just have to agree to differ.
Indeed Robert. Time will tell.
It is obvious to even the most supportive audience, ie Tory MP’s, that they can’t manage the proverbial in a brewery.