Brexit vote cancelled?

Great :frowning_face:

The reports yesterday seemed to indicate that she was going to go through with it so that she had some sort of leverage with Brussels - I can’t see that she will wring any concession out of them at the moment.

However, somewhat predictable.

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Poor Paul! How do you look when life is sh*t? :joy:

Seems like she’ll be going back to Brussels to try and gain some concessions. Too little too late?

About the same :slight_smile:

Brext it like watching a train crash in slow motion though, isn’t it?

I am getting a bit worried about the prospect of “no deal” which seems to be increasing at the moment.

I wonder if Corbyn will respond with a no confidence motion.

All feels a bit hokey cokey!

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I’ve always thought that TM was a remain ‘stooge’ and that she’s deliberately fixed a c**p deal with the EU (which parliament couldn’t accept) in order for the voting public to have the final say thereby changing the result.

As she has said in a reply a few minutes ago, it would be a bad day for democracy if government ignored the result of the referendum and proposed another. Fair enough, but if voters had known and understood all the pro’s and cons of leaving in 2016, there may well have been a different outcome. We will never know of course.

I can’t say I see that - she tried early on to appeal to the Brexiteers to “show that she had the mettle to see it through” - the trouble is that she hadn’t thought it through at that point. I agree that she then found herself boxed in by her own “red lines” so the current outcome became all but inevitable but to say that was her plan all along requires rather more imagination than I think there is any evidence of her ever having shown.

There is nothing undemocratic about going back to the people and saying “right, we know know that Brexit will look like this do you still want to go through with it?”.

My personal objection to a further referendum is not that it undermines the “will of the people” but that it will fuel divisions and won’t ultimately provide clarity.

It is to be noted that we haven’t tasted Brexit and the “future relationship” has not yet been determined yet (no surprise really, the 2 years was only ever for the withdrawal agreement to be finalised) so we don’t actually know the full pros and cons of leaving - but we can be certain that all those promises that negotiations would be a breeze because we held the upper hand were pure fantasy.

The bad day for democracy came in 2016 when lies sold out the nation.


Paul - I think a measure of the “will of the people” now is far more important than one from 2.5 years ago - as we now know far much more about the implications of Brexit.


If we could have a referendum prior to which the campaigns were informative, fair and calm, followed by a vote which showed that the public had a clear preference for a given path forward I would wholeheartedly support a further referendum.

What we will get is Farage et al back on the scene who, along with the rest of the ultra Brexit crowd, will scream that the people are being robbed of their democratic rights, that all this was settled in the 2016 referendum and we should just get on and leave, that the only reason the deal is rubbish is the incompetence of the government (OK, grain of truth there - May has been incompetent), or that it is an EU stitch-up and that, if only “someone like him” had been at the helm, it would all have been different. Pretty much anything, in fact, except the fact that it has all gone pear shaped is because you can’t have a hard Brexit and honour the Good Friday Agreement and the original Leave campaign promised a set of mutually incompatible stuff (“full access” to the SM + “ending FoM” for instance) and a set of fantasies (“they need us…”, £350M for the NHS) primarily because there was not a single coherent viewpoint as to how we wanted our future relationship with the EU to pan out but a set of discordant factions each with their own ideas and that hasn’t changed.

The campaign will be short so it will be intense, and I fully expect to be pretty vicious on the Leave side.

And after all that poor old “Will, of the people” will be just as confused, feeling just as betrayed and collectively will be just as divided as now.

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So Treacherous Theresa strikes again !!
Bearing in mind all the previous assurances that the vote would go ahead on Tuesday, it is now perfectly clear that not one word that is ever uttered by Theresa May can be relied upon as being true.

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There are now a greater number of young people eligible to vote who wish to have the same advantages as their predecessors to follow their education and subsequent working lives within the EU.
They should be heard and so should those who have changed their mind.

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I had a quick investigation of the principle of younger people (mainly remainers) becoming eligible to vote and older people (mainly leavers) no longer being here.

The net difference is about 70,000 per year shift towards Remain so in 2.5 years is about 175,000.

This is not as much as I had hoped but goes some way.

We are still a long way from seeing Brexit being cancelled or having another referendum. It’s all very well castigating TM but in reality what was she supposed to do given that having been defeated today she would then be told to go back and get the deal amended. IMO the whole farce highlights how divided parliament and the country is and another referendum would not change that, in fact if the result was a close Remain win then Leave would fight for a third one so we’d continue arguing for years whilst the country stagnates with the uncertainty.

One last thing, when are Corbyn and Labour going to come off the fence and act like a proper opposition party?