Very well said Carl, sadly the lack of political will currently being shown and the self indulgent grandstanding of many MP’s will I fear just perpetuate the stalemate. I’m have no sense of how this will all turn out, but I do feel the country will remain divided, uncertain and fearful for many years to come and far from the UK emerging from Brexit as the Brexiteers utopian thoroughbred horse, flag waving into a bright new prosperous future. I fear what we will see instead is the limping dirty squalid pit pony stumbling its way into the sunset, with no sense of direction or any idea how to change its future. I feel until a new type of politics emerges from the ashes that truly serves the people. I don’t see the UK moving forward from this paralysis anytime soon. I can’t wait to move to France now and start my new rural life on the farm.
Indeed Paul I fear the divisions are now so deep in the parties and the country though that if we do crash out with no deal the infighting and repercussions and plotting will prevent any cohesive plan to deal with it coming into fruition and because May can’t be ousted as PM for a year under the Conservative’s own rules they will just defeat any motions she tries to bring through the house. We are in for a very rocky and unprecedented few years ahead.
His article on what a no deal Brexit really looks like is what every one should be reading and considering it is truly eye opening!
To split hairs she can’t be ousted as Tory party leader - she can be ousted as PM if she looses a confidence motion in the House.
Corbyn would be a huge disaster though - he has even less of a coherent policy on Europe than May does. At least she had a plan. It was a crap plan, but it was a plan.
He is still in access to the single market without freedom of movement territory.
Paul yes indeed that was what I meant
Pit ponies had no say in how they lived their lives.
TM will have to have cross party talks now and she loathes Corbyn as much as, she says, not delivering on Brexit.
So, as predicted Corbyn did not carry the no confidence motion.
Where to now?
Mr Dunt once again writes pretty lucidly on the fact that Corbyn needs to get off the fence but will he?
May, also seems unwilling to turn off course - all she could offer was the promise, after the vote, that she would “continue her work” - but how? Her cross party olive branch does not extend as far as including Corbyn or the Labour front bench and she has categorically ruled out membership of the customs union or single market as part of the solution.
I reckon that her “plan B” is going to turn out to be to take us right to the wire then re-present her plan to parliament saying “back it or no deal”.
Fuckwits the lot of them.
May has started talking to the other party leaders, however Corbyn refuses to engage in any talks because she won’t guarantee ‘no deal’ is off the table, stalemate again.
Indeed. Sadly I do not think there is an iota of Corbyn’s soul which would put the national interest above his own and May is just the same.
He is seeking only the demise of the government and election of the Labour party with Corbyn at the helm ready to take us right back into the 1970’s. He failed to bring down the government with a confidence motion so I suspect his strategy will be to do nothing to avert no-deal exit because he thinks that is now the best way to bring the government down while avoiding any blame for the mess.
Meanwhile May remains blinkered on delivering Brexit with no FOM and no Customs Union membership - much less single market membership.
That said it is not that easy to “take no deal off the table” - it requires too much affirmative action in a very short period of time, but she could, at least, make the right noises. She won’t because, even if it isn’t “her deal” it preserves her silly red lines.
In the event that Parliament does come up with some agreed alternative proposals, would there still not be the problem of getting the EU to agree to it ? Seems to me that the Brussels folks have made it very plain that there will be NO renegotiation of the proposed Withdrawal Agreement as far as they are concerned.
Therefore is not the real choice to be made between that of a managed No Deal exit from the EU on the one hand, and cancelling Article 50 and remaining in the EU on the other.
Yes, but it depends on what “it” is. The EU has previously said that re-negotiation is not on offer but IIRC they tacked on a “unless the UK’s red lines shift significantly” - which means that renegotiation is possible, in the right circumstances.
Yes a simple choice between the prosperity that the people of Britain have become accustomed to or a struggle for generations to come.
At least now everybody must be aware that it is the British government who has always had the power and the ability (sovereignty ?) to control its borders and immigration, to control who uses the NHS and to control who is paid benefits. Those big things and all the little items that the press have blamed on the EU instead of pointing the finger where it should have been pointed.
This is not so much as a “what next” as a “what went before”, but it is an excellent analysis of how we have fared in the negotiations so far (and the numerous ways we have shot ourselves in the foot).
Unfortunately Paul, this is all irrelevant now. I’ve always thought that Labour held the key to getting through this mess but sadly it’s leader could not give a xxxx about what’s best for the UK and his attitude explains why the party is not streets ahead in the polls which it should be given the state the Tories are in.
Marxism does not appeal to the majority of UK voters.
Ordinarily I would disagree - you can’t alter the point which has been reached but why and how you got there are useful starting points when figuring out how to move forward.
This is not “ordinarily” though and I don’t think either of the main players is too interested in that analysis.
Corbyn, however, has demonstrated no desire or ability to take the government to task over their handling of the single most important issue of our time. He could have started out simply with the fact that a 52:48 split and subsequent loss of the Tory majority did not then give a mandate for the hardest of Brexits - but he did nothing. This is because a) he wants a hard exit and b) he doesn’t want the Labour party divisions on the matter in the public view when he can let the Tories take the fall. It is reprehensible behaviour and it is dereliction of duty.
As Dunt says - if the Labour party came up with something acceptable to moderate Tories it would pass the House with ease.
The main problem outside of Parliament seems that people are bored with Brexit and they think it is more important that people stop talking about it and Leave.
This is exactly the same reaction that they had before.
No real understanding of the issues and the effect that it will have on peoples lives.
I have no idea how plausible this is but it seems a radically different way to approach the problem
Just when you think there’s no road left to kick the can down, you turn a corner and voilà, the road stretches out before you again. Silly me, I thought that when TM was given 3 days to come up with a way forward, that meant that she had 3 days to find a way forward as in, make progress. Turns out that saying “we will discuss Brexit again and table a motion on 29th January” counts as finding a way forward.