Business quandary

Here I am, in my first day of retirement and I’ve been approached to do some work linked to my previous career. I’m now torn as I had no plans to work but it looks really interesting.

I guess the first question is whether I’m looking at a world of admin pain to set up a consultancy arrangement in the UK while living in France. Does anyone have any insight?

I guess it depends on what you want from your retirement. When we moved to France all those years ago (age 45 so not retired) I was approached a couple of times to do "consultancy " work but I declined as had already made the decision to start a new life. It was the right decision too.

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I kept working for a few months after we moved here and was glad I did so. It took me a LONG time to accept I was “retired” - hated the idea and the word, though loved living the life in France. It was years before I got rid of my business suits.

I never thought I’d do it but I’ve enjoyed running a gite because (a) I was continuing to contribute to the costs of living in France and (b) I was getting lovely comments from guests and lots of returners so I felt I was doing something worthwhile / of value to others which matters to me and has been good for my self-esteem. But then I’m not someone who plays golf, or goes on cruises, or plays bridge, so I’m not sure what I would do with my time. Oh, I know … garden. :grin:

Not exactly answering your question John, but the admin pain maybe worth it if the consultancy brings you pleasure and status that you still need as you ease into retirement. Just a thought.

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When I took early retirement (medical) I was terrified of being bored. I have always worked and realised that work was an important aspect in the way I valued myself.

I too was approached for consultancy roles as it was easy to set up as self employed consultant in UK. My mum was still alive so suited her too as I went over every few weeks and stayed with her as what you can’t do is work when in France.

After a couple of years my mum died, my life here had got established and it was no longer attractive for me. So I stopped.

I don’t remember the tax returns being unduly complicated as did self assessment in UK anyway, and since I was 10 years+ off a State Pension it didn’t seem to affect that for me. But you need to check this won’t tip you over to having UK as last competent State.

So in short it was a very useful bridge from work to non-work for me.

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Only you can answer this one!
Me? I waited thirty years to pack it all in and move to France and do nothing. I admit to feeling guilty though, as I could easily have spent many years working part time installing water in Africa.

Not consultancy, but canine relocation, it became well known that I was winding down long journeys due to age, covid, and Fran’s long illness, but since she died I have done a few shorter runs always avoiding a night away.

But this one came in this morning, Agen next Saturday back to the pension near here. About a 6 hour round trip, I wanted to do it but even those many hours make me sigh at the prospect. But then I thought, I know a routier not far from Agen, it could be a different night out for the dogs and I if I went down on Friday evening, treated myself to a meal and collected the next day for the 3 hour run back here, I would arrive early afternoon. So, a big change for 5 year old Radko who has had a chequered history at the hands of humans so far. :grinning:

Sorry @JohnH, not really drift, it is in the spirit of life after (2nd) retirement. :wink:

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The question is where will you do the work - or the vast majority of it? Keeping it simple…

If it’s remote work and you’re living in France - either set up an AE or look up portage salarial. Both assume a work visa

If you’ll do the work in the UK (or anywhere but France) set up a Ltd in the UK and bill through that. UK tax then declare personal income from it in France.

Thanks all, and you’ve pretty much captured a lot of the wider questions running through my mind.

I’ve been saying all week that I wouldn’t be actively seeking work but I would think about it if anything intellectually interesting presented itself. I just didn’t think it would be quite this soon :joy:

Due to the nature of the work, it pretty much needs to be in the UK, and French residency might make it too difficult anyway, so it might all be moot.

David, you must update us when your weekend trip is over ! :kissing_heart:

I will, but it may not be exceptional or interesting, and possibly not in this thread. :roll_eyes:

John, many congratulations on reaching your retirement!

Everyone is different, but for me, the moment I retired was the first time I was able to properly relax and switch off in literally years. I didn’t have to worry about what was building up in my inbox every time I went away etc, nor worrying about billing and collecting fees from clients, compliance with rules and regulations, and best of all, not being at the beck and call of any bosses, colleagues and clients…Bliss, after 37 years. That’s why I resolved not to do any paid work whatsoever from the moment I left work. I’ve not regretted it for one moment in the succeeding 3 years. You don’t need anybody to tell you that there is so much else to do that is stimulating in France, in retirement…
I hope you have a very rewarding retirement…

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Congrats on your retirement!

I have considered doing some part-time photography after I retire and move to France - but to take on professional shoots in France post-Brexit it would mean having to have an entrepreneur/profession libérale visa and then they expect you to make it a full-time job, at least in terms of earnings, which I don’t want to do.

Also I want to keep my S1 entitlement as a retraité.

However for me there seems to be a small loophole which I am hoping to exploit - having overseas income is allowed if you are on an economically inactive visa, so I should be able to continue being paid by Adobe Stock, Shutterstock etc for royalties on sales of stock images (from the US and Canada), hence I can go out and do some landscape photography which I enjoy anyway.

It won’t be much money (probably €1000 a year at most), but it should keep me busy, to the extent that I want to!

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David, how about putting it in Dog Photos with a picture of Radko. :heart_eyes:

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Go for it @David_Spardo

And then you fell of a castle doing voluntary work @George1 ! :slight_smile:

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After I retired I did a little consultancy work as an auto entrepreneur. I did not find it particularly burdensome to set up and run. In fact closing it down was probably the hardest part of it all administratively speaking. The work was very intermittent and many quarters I had nothing to declare. I found it a nice way of transitioning mentally from being an employed person to being fully retired. I do not recall ever actually making a conscious decision to stop work, although I do recall my wife rolling her eyes every time I took on a project and declared this would be the last. It was more a gradual realisation that I had not felt inclined to take anything on for over a year and it seemed vanishing unlikely that I ever would again. Which I think was a relatively painless way of accepting that my working life had in fact ended some time back, so closing the business down felt overdue and barely gave me a pang.

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I believe the two greatest things to struggle with when you retire are

A. Giving yourself permission to do nothing.
and
B. Being able to reply with confidence “Nothing” to the Question “What do you do”

If you don’t desperately need the money. When you retire, retire and enjoy life doing a lot of things that you can call nothing.

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I’d be interested in knowing how this goes and whether you took/take advice on the legal issues involved. I am also accessing healthcare via S1 and don’t want to interfere with that. In my case I retired several years ago but have recently been asked to do some consulting work by a pharma company to help their staff understand how to involve patients more effectively in their work (I am a volunteer advocate in several areas). I want to do this regardless of remuneration and when they asked me to register as an AE I suggested doing it for free, given that it is something I support, but they insist on paying. Tell the truth I am discussing with a patient group here in France about them contracting with the pharma company and receiving the income and I do the work for free - I think any travel expenses are less controversial.

Well I have done my best to find out! I consulted various lawyers but didn’t really get a fully definitive answer - some of the firms I contacted only dealt with French property law so would not give an opinion; I did eventually get in touch with a lawyer in Paris who said this:

To answer your questions about the taxation of these royalties:

  • these royalties will be subject to income tax in France but will no longer be taxable in the UK.
  • the royalties you receive from the use of your photos should not, a priori, be subject to social security contributions, as this activity does not constitute a professional activity (I understand that the retirement pensions you will receive will be of a higher amount), but you will be liable for social contributions at the rate of 17.2% on them.

Regarding your visa, I’m not a specialist in this field, but as you won’t be collecting these royalties on a professional basis, your visa shouldn’t be affected by the perception of these royalties.

I’m not totally clear what she means by “social contributions” being payable but “social security contributions” not applying, but other than that it seems it’s doable - my main concern was being able to get an “inactif” visa with associated S1 and not being forced to go down the entrepreneur / prof. libérale visa route, which would mean having to establish a viable full-time business.

The Great Minds here on SF also seemed to think it would be OK.

If it ends up being too much hassle I will just ditch my stock libraries, it’s only going to be a few hundred Euros a year in income anyway.

just wondering… if you decide you don’t really need these royalties (or they are just too much hassle…) perhaps you could arrange things so that any royalties go directly to the charity of your choice ??? that way, someone/something benefits from your work :wink: