Buying a plot of land

Property & Home
1

I mentioned a while ago about my request to buy the small, wooded, plot of land adjoining my garden and, after a 4 month wait got a reply in the affirmative at an agreed price.

Also on a visit to the local notaire on another matter he offered to contact the seller and take the deal forward.

I got an email yesterday from his office with 3 documents attached which all need filling in. Loads of detail about who I am, my marital status, the origin of the funds to pay for the land and lots of other stuff including details of my divorce, over 40 years ago.

I think I can understand 99% of it although am nervous about signing legal documents in a language other than my own without some assistance, but do I really have to go back that far for something nobody can have the slightest knowledge of?

I suppose I will just print off them all and take it easy without interruption, working my way through from beginning to end, and keep my fingers crossed. Is all this stuff comparatively recent? I certainly didn’t have to go through it all when buying the house and shortly afterwards, the then next door plot, but I suppose our friendly estate agent filled it all in himself, and it was 30 odd years ago.

2

It’s about money laundering and knowing your client (and protecting your client’s interests).

It’s similar in the UK, though a bit simpler because of the way inheritance laws work there.

And, of course, some of us former CrimeWatch aficionados still remember the name of Dodgy Dave Spardo 


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Damn, I thought I’d left all that behind me. :rage:

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4

When we were trying to buy our place there was a bit of a fuss about where the funds were coming from and wanting evidence to show they we legal. We spent ages with the building society, fiddled about pulling data together, creating a signed document attesting it was inheritance etc.

The notaire didn’t ask to see anything. :roll_eyes:

5

I’ll fill them in as best as I can and deliver them by hand, that way they can tell me if they are ok or not. I want to get that land tied up so I can get the geomet expert in to mark the corners and then the fencers so that the dogs have more room to roam.

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Well things are beginning to move along with 27 days to go to signing the Acte de Vente, with an email this morning from the Notaire’s office.
And a document no less than 14 pages long. :open_mouth:

I think I have understood it all but I was never sure if the €100 I paid to the Notaire was just his fee or if it included any taxes that might be due. So there is a short sequence which seems to make clear that the latter exists and needs to be paid by me

DROITS
Mt Ă  payer
Taxe
départementale
1 000,00
x 5,00 % = 50,00
Taxe communale
1 000,00 x 1,20 % = 12,00

then just below that:

Frais d’assiette
50,00 x 2,37 % = 1,00
TOTAL 63,00
CONTRIBUTION DE SÉCURITÉ IMMOBILIÈRE
En fonction des dispositions de l’acte à publier au fichier immobilier, la
contribution de sĂ©curitĂ© immobiliĂšre reprĂ©sentant la taxe au profit de l’État telle que
fixĂ©e par l’article 879 du Code gĂ©nĂ©ral des impĂŽts s’élĂšve Ă  la somme :
Type de contribution Assiette Taux Montant
Contribution proportionnelle minimale 1 000,00 0,10% 15 euros

That looks to me like another €73 for me to pay on top of the €1,000 for the land and €100 for the Notaire, which makes a grand total of €1,173, which seems reasonable to me. What do others think.?

I mentioned earlier that I had given the job of clearing the land between the trees and supplying and installing all the fencing and a gate, to a young Dutchman who seemed perfectly professional for around €2,300.

If that is all, for what it gives me and the dogs, and preserves the trees from the ever present loggers, I reckon less than €4,000 is money well spent.

There is no mention anywhere of the legal need to employ a geometre expert as I know where the limits are and which are on 2 sides bounded by captive Commune land and on the other by people I know.

So that saves, if I am right, another €2,000 plus.

By the way, the Dutchman sent me a devis the same evening he visited at around €2,200 but, although I was impressed enough to say yes right away I thought it only fair to allow a Frenchman to come as planned 3 days later before I made the final decision. He seemed equally good and promised a devis asap. But after another 3 days with no further word I gave the job to Joop. The Frenchman, who I thought had decided against bidding, finally quoted about €6,000 3 weeks later. :open_mouth:

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7

Further email from the Notaire today, asking for a virement for €1,200 at least 48 hours before the signing day. That is purchase price plus expenses.
I immediately went through the setting up of him as a beneficiary for virements but then met the brick wall I have encountered in the past. Just goes round and round in circles even though they have accepted him, but no way to pay. Unbelievably complicated.

This happened in December when I did the same with the macon who made Fran’s grave stone and surround. That was over €4,000 and I ended up sending a cheque. I saw this morning, just once, that his name it still there. :roll_eyes:

I replied asking if I can come in next week and pay by cheque.

8

Credit Agricole make you wait a couple of days after setting up a new virement before they will allow payment - could it be that?

9

I don’t know but I have tried to translate very carefully. I know it has accepted the destination because I have seen it on the screen, I might nip down to the agence in the morning and ask that point.

But if it was the case, you have thought that once setup there would be some indication of when a transfer could be made, but all I get is ‘retour’, ‘abandonner’ or ‘ajouter un autre benificiere’. Obviously the first 2 aren’t appropriate but when I click the 3rd it says, ‘am I sure I want to abandon?’, the same message that I get with ‘abandonner’ , as you would expect.

Also, if that was the case, why haven’t I been offered a transfer to the one that was cleared in December, but the only offer of a transfer I get is to my savings account.

10

I am with Credit Agricole and when we set up a new virement it is instantaneous. Must be different regions.

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Don’t get me started on CrĂ©dit Agricole and their messing around with customers’ power to set up and/ or actually pay once set up, beneficiaries the customer wants to set up themselves.
.
The last go-round on this it finally allowed me to set up a beneficiary myself to pay an invoice but same experience no transaction would go through.

When I called Credit Aggravation a few days later as still not working after multiple attempts - after all what else do I have to do with my time :frowning: .? Their latest excuse was for it to actually work they would have to change the overall security on my account to a different method. Can’t remember exaxtly what but it was tbe previous rĂ©gime I’d switched away from as it wasn’t working reliably when I needed it.
.
I suggest you call them or visit your branch as they will have changed something so that sonething new or different is now required for this to work. Not announced proactively of course.

My Caisse has Nord in tbe name although it’s not in tbe North and tbe scary thing from other bank stories from neighbours is that relatively for local banks Credit Ag may not be that bad.

12

4 working days after my effort to set up and pay by virement, a message from La Banque Postale arrived telling me that I now could.
3 days after I paid by cheque. Way to go in future. :grinning:

But something else has reared its ugly threat.
We bought our house 32 years ago, then, as now, the entry to our garden is 5 metres away from the passing chemin. That land is owned by the commune and is at the moment attached, not literally, to the house next door which is rented to our friends.
Yesterday another friend, the maire, possibly alerted by rumours of my land purchase, came to warn me of a possible problem in the future if the commune was to sell the house to the current or future owners. And if those buyers were of a mind to, I could be denied access to my property.

He suggested a solution, involving much expense to access the lane directly at the other end of my garden, something he was surprised to learn I had suggested 30 years ago. And which was rejected out of hand.

My question will be the next time I see the notaire is ‘can they do this?’
But I wondered what others think here.
I have not checked the deeds yet but surely if not actually specified, can custom and use not have a place here?

13

I don’t know about France, but certainly in the UK if a right of way to cross someone else’s land has been in use for a long period, typically 20 years, then it becomes a “prescriptive right of way”:

To prove a prescriptive right of way, the user must demonstrate that the usage has been continuous, uninterrupted, without force, and for a specific period of time (typically 20 years).

I would imagine that something similar is likely to apply in France. Definitely worth asking the notaire.

14

One of my neighbours sold his house in the hamlet just before Christmas. The house had been empty for a long time. He had often had run-ins with the neighbouring farmer who claimed that the house had no right of way across a strip of his land to the road. The neighbour is also sure that the farmer was the anonymous person who had made an offer of about 25% of the asking price through LBC. The farmer also told people who had passed by to look at the house that there was no right of way to it. Finally the house sale went through because on the sale paperwork from when his wife’s grandfather bought the place about 80 years ago there was a handwritten and signed attestation confirming that there was a right of way between the road and the house. It might be a good idea for you to get something similar.

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Yes, thanks both, the Maire and I were joking about it but there was no doubt that he thought it could be a future problem.
I do have a cheaper solution to my original one, 32 years ago, and at the other end, but still not cheap. The notaire is the next stop.

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Another thought has come to me. There used to be a fence around that neighbouring house and we assumed that that was the edge of their (rented) property and that the entry between us was not part of their garden but a common, shared, entrance. To be investigated, I know the man who lived there when we bought, so I could ask him what he assumed at the time.

17

Try looking at the cadastre

18

I wondered about that too - though was hesitant to suggest it due to my lack of experience with such things so far.

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19

Google earth timeline might help

20

https://www.cadastre.gouv.fr/scpc/accueil.do

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