Hi folks.
I own an apartment in a small building (4 lots). The percentages for dividing the costs for roof repairs etc. has never been calculated and we are trying to calculate it ourselves (among copropriétaires) without engaging expensive professionnels, but we are having trouble agreeing on how to mesure everything.
Anybody have knowledge or experience with this? Thanks.
This is something I find quite curious. While currently looking at properties in London I have found ‘service charges’ vary widely, so I wanted to try and understand why. Aside from the usual suspects’ arbitrary money making system, there are actually parameters that should be understood.
Here’s a rather handy post by someone in UK a year ago:
Here is a rough breakdown of last year’s annual budget. Might help you to understand the situation better
Management fee £2836
Company secretary fee £359
Sundries £180
Building insurance £7980
Electricity £400
Accountancy fees £328
Risk management £506
Cleaning £1000
Garden & grounds maintenance £2900
Reserve fund £3695
Asbestos testing £300
Directors & officers insurance £152
Account certification fee £185
https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/comments/1dyxujc/service_charges_with_shared_freehold/
It may require some evidence and possibly a respected advisor to get all the owners to agree initially. After that, the service charge can be listed within property contracts and passed on to new owners.
It is wise to hold a co property sinking fund for building maintenance because if not, there is always someone who says things like, “I don’t use the lift so why should I pay for annual maintenance?” However, they will happily list the lift as an asset when their property comes up for sale.
Hi
I live in an appartement building in Strasbourg and we have a syndicat bénévole, very ably led by a Czech lady architect who lives in the building.
Calculating the millièmes is a byzantine process involving very precise measurements of the private and communal spaces. We’re in the process of replacing the roof, which has been largely funded by us all selling off a little communal apartment under the eaves to said architect. Plus I personally have sold her my mansarde. This has naturally entailed changes to each household’s millièmes.
To avoid any arguments and be absolutely sure the measurements are done correctly, you really need to bring a professional géomètre. There is no way - even with an architect on the team - we would have known how to measure and divide up all the nooks and crannies that make up our old building.
Thanks.
Our building has no monthly charges at all. All this is for some major roof repairs and also for building insurance.
The problem isn’t the measuring, it’s knowing whether to include only “loi carrez” or not, also the difference between habitable and non-habitable surfaces (privately owned attics and cellars). And whether to take into consideration communal areas.
Our appartement in Paris had an equally complex calculation for the different charges. The basic was by surface area of the individual flats - loi carrez. Most stuff then divided by your quota of the total, including roof works as roof protected us all. But then some things were different, so the top floor paid more for cleaning the communal parts.
I’ll ask the lady who manages our building when I next see her. I know there are detailed rules about this somewhere but can’t remember where she gets her guidance from. One of the 5 households is a law firm with a specialist in property law and he keeps her straight. But she definitely mentioned another information source that voluntary syndics can refer to.
Attics definitely count in the calculation of millièmes because after we sold ours, our number of millièmes decreased. And hence our portion of the cost of replacing the roof. Thank God because it’s costing around €100k.
Presumably attics and cellars are included.
Common areas can perhaps be excluded if there are no charges? In my case, no charges, only cost of repair work.
Am intrigued that you have no charges in your building. No lighting in communal areas? No cleaning of the hallway, staircase and landings? No buildings insurance including cover in case a member of the public slips on uncleared ice directly in front of the building?
I’ll ask our lady when I see her but in the meantime there’s this: https://www.anah.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2024-02/202402_GuideSyndicBenevole_WEBA.pdf
Check out the chapter “l’état descriptif de division”.
I know most buildings have an EDD - État descriptif de division. But we don’t have one, and I guess a huge number of copropriétés don’t have either.
Does a anybody have experience with the real life application of the loi Alur?
Thanks Helenochka, I’ll read that.
No, we have no copropriété building insurance, but intend to have one as soon as possible.
The apartments pay the stairwell lighting.
No charges whatsover. Small copropriété in a village population 550 people.
Just spoke to the lady who runs our syndic bénévole.
She belongs to the following association and says they’re an invaluable source of information:
Both of your documents are helpful Helenochka.
Thank you.
Wunderbar. Hope you manage to work things out. It takes a special kind of person to run even a small apartment block. Our Czech lady looks very sweet but she rules us with a rod of iron. I’m always a bit embarrassed because the other French householders seem to have zero appreciation of the work involved in chasing them up for payments etc. and forget she’s unpaid. I would have cheerfully strangled them all years ago.
She gets a large bottle of champers from me every Christmas and lots of grovelling.