Thanks Gary, thanks Mike. Totally agree. And thanks to Bunty for starting this interesting conversation.
Rachael, Mike.
Rachael, I think your mum was right on target. Keep a balance. Some people need to eat some meat for health reasons. OK No problem with that. And starvation is an absolute horror when we throw away so much food and waste so much of our resources. I honestly believe we are living in a global society that is mentally ill. A lot of comes down to ignorance of the way thing actually are and the way we think things are.
As a species we are somewhat off beam as to what makes up happy and our priorities are .... well. mad.! Our eating habits ,though important are just the tip of the iceberg and indicative of a larger problem. Dont want to sound pessimistic. In fact I feel very optimistic about our situation. Just this discussion is a positive thing.
Often physical illness is a combinations of a whole lot of causes and conditions. Job, lifestyle everything plays a part. Even our way of looking at the world has an effect. When i think of the number of things that could go wrong with my body i feel its an absolute miracle that i wake up alive!
Happy to continue this discussion on putting the world right and eating well.( I also think we all, myself included eat far too much)
Well said Elaine, not only more worthy to catch, test for feline viruses and then sterilise but more efficient.
It is a well known fact internationally that catch and kill never works. I'll not get into it here but you can see much more detail on our website - www.chatsduquercy.fr. If damage were to be assessed Mark, you'll find humans are the main culprit.
Thanks for the recipe Gary, will certainly give this a go, sounds delicious.
Elaine, if you click on 'all groups' on the right hand side you'll see a little plus sign, click on this and you can add a group. there is already a food lovers groups too.
Thanks Gary, everything in moderation as my Mum always says :-) Totally agree about packaged food, salt, sugar and alcohol. As I have said in an earlier post I have verged on vegetarianism and veganism. I have done lots of research in the past year mainly due to thyroid and digestive problems - wanting to cure them myself rather than take medication. Along those lines I have researched vegetarianism, veganism, juicing, Gerson Therapy, paleo etc. You name it, I have researched it. Trying to get to the bottom of it all. Have I messed up my body through dieting, near vegetarianism, near veganism (didnt eat much dairy for 10 years), living near fields sprayed with pesticide...? Grains and gluten - which is the more likely. I havent come to any conclusions yet, that is why this post is so interesting and we should continue the discussion - maybe in another group (hopefully will set it up). I would have liked someone else to read the Vegetarian Myth and the authors well researched (i feel) arguments just so that we could all argue about it :-)
Rachael.
What is more damaging to ourselves and the planet? Meat or grains. What is the cause of more suffering. Meat or grains?. Its a valid argument that harvesting grains kills millions of living creatures. So does sheep shearing. Even a walk across the fields. I think its a question of where to draw the line and minimise our damage.
I have no doubt that killing to eat is unnesesecary and causes suffering and i do not want to be part of it. Look at it this way. What does any animal have? The only thing an animal has is its life. And it is just as attached to that as we are to ours. I have no right to steal this life to eat and survive. I can go and eat an apple or a vegetable We have very strong habit tendencies and it difficult to change our patterns. But it is possible
Like I mentioned I have been vegetarian for 35 years I have 2 kids in their 20s both vegetarian. It was a little tricky as they grew up in France and were seen as a bit crazy when they turned up for school with their veggie packed lunch.( This really made the teachers and other kids flip out) But they stuck to their guns and have stayed vegetarian with no ill effects( Psychological or physical). In fact much healthier with less coughs and colds than their friends. I'm in pretty good health to when i think of it. So this is my personal experience and not from books.
My wife is also vegetarian(since her teenage years) and gives vegetarian cookery lessons in the local adult institute. She does huge amounts of research on the subject.
I thought that it was interesting when you said" We wernt designed to eat that amount of grains" Personally I dont think we were designed to eat packaged food or the quantities of sugar salt and alcohol that we consume.
Thank you for an interesting conversation and helping me reflect on my diet I really appreciate it.
Gary, sorry didn't answer your question about lentils. Not sure but I thought lentils were legumes not grains? I was speaking more about wheat, rye, barley, corn etc etc
Thanks Valerie, thats great. I will have a look later.
Hi Rachael, I messaged Elaine last night (not sure if she's seen it yet) but for quick reference if you look on the main page, left hand column where Groups are shown, at the bottom of that box there's an "Add+" which will take you to a start-up page for a new group. I thought Elaine's "low impact living" was a great idea so I'm waiting with bated breath...
Gary, there is a lot of evidence that we have totally overdone the grain thing and its more likely that grains are causing a lot more diseases than meat. Although I do agree with you about cruelty to animals and try to cut down on meat if I can. Grains make up a massive amount of our diet and we weren't designed to eat that much, if at all. 10,000 years ago we probably had none at all. I know that there are lots of healthy things we can eat, but if you cut out grains it starts to get quite limited, and its grains that are doing the damage to ourselves and to the planet. Read the Vegetarian Myth and you will see why.
Elaine not sure either how to start a new group, otherwise I might have started one by now :-)
If I have time I will look in the FAQs, but quite busy at the moment so not sure when. It is a great idea though.
No sure I want to enter into the exermination conversation much. Although I am not a veggie, I don't like killing any animals, vermin or not. I get really upset if our cats kill mice. I do kill wasps, slugs and ants though, but feel guilty all the same!
Mark, thank you for the ‘heads up’ regarding the cat virus. I am sure many cat charities will be avidly re-searching this as I write. Sadly, we (humanity) have buggered up the natural balance of nature with our greed, selfishness and indiscriminate breeding - thank goodness there is no virus to knock us en masse off the planet… Or is there? Hmm…
I adopted two ‘feral’ cats from a charity who after they caught them, had them neutered/spayed and then re-homed. They were great micers (despite one having only three legs) and helped control the rat population. Sadly the Tom caught a rat that had been poisoned and so he too lost his life. You are entitled to your opinions mark Allen, as is everyone and I would argue catching, preventing from breeding and re-homing is a more worthy practice of a human being than ‘extermination’ all be that is takes time and love.
Doreen there is no escaping the facts your response does transcend written sentiment and decency. Your response indicates your bias and I deduce the distinct lack of care and interest in the damage 'cats' and their naive owners inflict on communities natural and humane.
Cats and particularly ferral and yard cats are vermin. More often than not cats have owners who neither have time nor care for the feline and the damage they cause to natural occuring eco systems. I have been lucky and eliminated the ferral cats in my area. After three years the bird life and riverbank activity has returned in abundance. My Spanish friends inform me that a new virus targeted at felines should reduce this problem by 50% in the next few years. Indiscriminate poisoning and use of insecticides should be banned.
If we wanted to start a group covering ‘low impact living’ how do we do it? Not sure how to contact Catherine and James, could someone steer me in the right direction please? Apologies for high-jacking this post a little.
Lynn Yes from poisoning cats to eating healthy Quite a journet.
Almond milk is easy. Cup of almonds -Pour on boiling water and about 6 hours later skin them. If you have a hand food mixer whizz them up in some water an then add water to make a litre. Some vanilla is good to add. It makes the best porridge on the planet. Zero cholesterol
This is turning into a bit of a foodie thread, but hey ho! Your Almond milk sounds lovely Gary, how do you make it??
I totally agree with your sentiments - "Its not just a matter of what what is best for ME its much bigger than that. Its trying to move to a way of living that is more compassionate for all.", what a shame that all humans don't think the same as this can be applied to everything we do, not just what we eat.
Rachael- Eating grains is bad for humans?? Havent heard that before. Are lentils and as bad as red meat?
There is controversy surrounding soja but by all accounts Tempeh is fine. I eat a little cheese and I have been vegetarian for 35 years also lots of proten in nuts. Almond milk(We make our own ) is delicious. There are lots of thing we can eat. There are plenty of books and websites devoted to eating a healthy diet.
Its not just a matter of what what is best for ME its much bigger than that. Its trying to move to a way of living that is more compassionate for all. Eating meat is causes so much suffering. Suffering for animals and also for those who consume the meat in terms of their health. (Theres lots of evidence for this)> . There is already more than enough suffering in the world and just think that if today I didnt eat meat I am contributing to saving an animals life. Doesnt that make one feel good. Whereas the opposite. Ive been eating pork sausages implicates me in the killing of a pig> Doesnt make me feel too happy. It just thinking down the line a way and being kind. No big deal
I have been veggie for over 25 years now and as fit as the proverbial fiddle, so no problem maintaining good health and not eating flesh but I do cook and love cooking plus eat dairy and of course, cake -)))) but fully understand mikes comment - try not eating garlic, onion, shallots, leeks etc and living in India for 5 months (southern) now that’s a challenge - think ‘conscious consuming’ is what we need to practice a little more and sharing of resources but this another threat I think
Thanks, yes all very interesting Mike. I have never been big on meat, was almost veggie, but it has been hard being married to a French man so I have kind of given in a bit. I am at least now trying to consciously buy grass fed free range animals rather than anything couped up or fed on grains. Would like to go fishing but the rivers are polluted with pesticides around here. When I win the lottery I will buy some land and get some sheep and chickens :-)