CdS being obtained by non-resident second home owners

EU citizens are not obliged to hold a CdS but they are entitled to request one (this applies throughout the EU).
It has been mentioned repeatedly although you seem reluctant to accept it but freedom of movement comes with strings attached, it does not exactly mean that an EU citizen can reside where they choose. And in some situations, for instance when an EU citizen is claiming unemployment benefit or other benefits in their host country, the administration will want to check that the EU citizen is exercising FoM correctly, in other words that they are residing “regularly”. The definitive way to prove legal residence is to obtain a CdS and produce that when proof is required.

Read it again! Not across all the 5 years, but in any individual one of those 5 years.

Freedom of movement did come with strings attached. The fact that France chose not to check endlessly didn’t mean these requirements didn’t exist. We had to provide a lot of evidence back in the day,…,

We might be at cross purposes.

I am talking about the special arrangements for CdSWA issue and renewal… not cards issued to folk who arrive after 31/12/2021.

Yes I realise that, but I see no reason why renewal of our cards should be privileged? Surely as we are all now third country nationals then we will have to live by the same requirements? So €225 for renewal of a 10 year card.

You might well be right, that the higher sum does have to be paid for renewal of CdSWA… But it’s been chewed over so many times… who knows… and, as I have already said, no doubt Renewal will be highlighted and detailed nearer the time…

Due to the Brexit Agreement… those of us with CdSWA are already privileged over other third country nationals…

You seem determined to miss the point!
FoM rules make a clear distinction between residence in the first 5 years when you have conditions to meet, and residence after 5 years when you have qualified for full rights and you no longer have to worry about meeting the conditions. In some situations it can make a big difference, so obviously EU citizens are potentially concerned with residency.

…yes on second reading I understand…maybe any one of those five years was clearer.
The principal underpinning the WDA was that Brits residing in the
EU could remain in the EU in perpetuity (given no extreme criminality) and not lose the advantages they had. It is an international legal agreement deposited with UN and not in any way connected to trade agreements, so it would be very difficult for Le Pen at al to renege on it…it is an EU-UK agreement not French-Uk

Of course it does,…as in many circumstances in life if you don’t follow the rules you suffer, but there are few obstructions stopping EU citizens from moving around…that was one of the fundemental reasons for the outcome of Brexit.

Are you saying these FOM rules apply in the 27 states as of now?

Absolument, I understand that people who applied early on had to jump through hoops with detailing and proving everthing, including their shoe size and inside leg measurement, whereas those who applied at the end had a much simpler set of criteria to meet, which did not mention, funds, health, or Tax at all.

I know that those who met the final criteria were given 10 year cards.

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Have looked on UK gov site and it clearly states that after five years you will qualify for permanent residence…seems pretty clear to me…and only for serious illegality would it be refused.

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You missed out a word….Brits residing “legally” in the EU, and to be oermananet yiu have to reside legally for 5 years…

Interesting document, can you give me the link to the whole thing especially para 8 beforehand ?

I do like to read from fact, rather than someone’s interpretation :slightly_smiling_face:

But we are not third country nationals, thanks to both the EU and U.K. (one willingly, one dragged kicking and screaming) we’re two and a half country nationals as @Stella has already hinted at. You and I are in the privileged position of having the withdrawal agreement that ensures that while technically we are third country nationals in reality we’re lifted out of that group and edged a bit more towards EU citizens. Of course it’s best to think, and expect, to get the bare minimum standard afforded to the rest of the world, but all evidence to date suggests that pretty much all countries (and the EU itself) aside from the U.K. realise they have a duty and responsibility to look after that group of people who have had this momentous life changing decision the parliament of our country of birth has enacted forced on to us.

We (rightly) give a lot of credit to France for the way we have been treated but there has always been a lot of pressure from the EU to ‘do right by us’ and it wouldn’t surprise me at all that unless there is a seismic shift in the EU, any country which didn’t treat WA residents very kindly and with a light touch would definitely hear about it. It goes to a much deeper level than that we’re no longer EU citizens so we shouldn’t get the associated privileges, it goes to the very core of what the EU is, how it behaves and how it treats people, and how it wants to be seen, both by it’s nation members and the rest of the world. Brexit has as much been a public relations battle as anything and governments are very mindful of bad PR (Well, most :roll_eyes:)

Unlike most people who have commented so far, I’m far more optimistic and wouldn’t be at all surprised if when it comes to exchanging 5 to 10 year WA cards it is another 5 minute job with the exact same documents as previously (updated obviously) which if all check out will just be waved through. In fact when everyone has their cards I’ll be exchanging mine as I’m just hitting my 5 years shortly so I can be the Guinea pig :joy: But for my 5 year card I had to prove I’d been working, and I’d definitely expect to see some sort of showing income earned or taxed in France, which may trip up some of these very few cases of people illegitimately having one, but it makes no sense for them to suddenly get very strict and difficult, make people jump through hoops or charge a fortune, even in a country like this where paying the state a fortune and jumping through more hoops than an prizewinning agility dog is par for the course.

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Try this,

The key difference between under and over five years is that for the former you must be here for at least 185 (?) Days each year whereas over five years that doesn’t apply, so when after five years a “permanent” one is applied for this will be checked as will continuing financial and health which had to be proven now.

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@kirsteastevenson
What a superb and refreshing commentary…so much better than some posts that paint France as possibly wanting to be vindictive.
We have experienced CdeS, Carte V, driving licence, planning application, hospitalisation , full tax return and have nothing but praise for French efficiency, friendly and welcoming attitude.

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You are correct, but the only process we had to go through to get the new version was to apply for a swap once the online portal went live in October 2020.

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It surprises me that so many people feel that the key issue here is, how many days you can spend outside the country you have chosen to live in.
I always saw the key issue as qualifying for unconditional rights including to social security. I have never wanted to spend long periods away from home.
Perhaps the difference is that many here have moved as retirees with few commitments and can travel as they wish.
I moved here approx 15 years ago with a young family and a good job, but the financial crash occurred before I had been here for 5 years. My firm struggled and I was deeply worried that I might lose my job and be unable to find another one, and could end up in a situation where I no longer fulfilled the FoM residence obligations and lost my social security rights. Had I already been residing legally in France for five years at that point I would have had unconditional rights and would have had nothing to worry about, whereas as it was, with a family to look after, it was an extremely stressful time and I have not forgotten it. We all look at things in the light of our own experience and I suppose that is why I see this rather differently from some.

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We have been here two years so I was surprised that our cards have an expiry date five years hence

I then found this explanation on one of the officially sponsored help sites, set up to help people apply, so I expect it to be correct
: Frenchresidencysupport.org

What are the differences between a temporary or a permanent residence permit?

The préfecture will either issue a five-year ‘temporary’ WA RP or a ten-year ‘permanent’ WA RP depending on the length of your residence in France on application, or whether you’re married to a French national, or on specific circumstances such as having suffered permanent injuries from an industrial accident while employed in France.

With a five-year residence permit, physical presence in France is required for a minimum of 183 days of each of those first five years to remain ‘legally resident’. There are some special circumstances that allow you to be absent for longer, such as serious illness or a work posting in another country.

With a ten-year ‘permanent’ WA RP, it is the card that must be replaced after ten years to update photographs and personal information and your ‘right to remain’ that is permanent. Once you have these permanent residency rights, you are permitted to leave France and live elsewhere for up to five years without losing your residency rights.

If you are issued a five-year Withdrawal Agreement residence permit, but reach five years of legal residence before the card nears expiration, you can request your ten-year permanent residence permit. This may not be immediately issued by the préfecture, but be assured that under EU and French law, your rights of permanent residence exist even if they’re not reflected in the card that you possess.

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I agree with your post except that the “bare minimum standard afforded to the rest of the world” suggests that France does not give much protection to its (legal) third country immigrants. Apart from the obvious technicalities and red tape to do with visas and residence permits, I am not aware that the many third country nationals living in France are treated any worse than EU nationals living in France or have inferior rights. It seems to me that they are also welcomed and treated fairly and kindly.