Hi All… I’ve been tied up elsewhere and just come back in on this thread…
My comment about extra paperwork was drawn from my own experiences when helping “my gang” with their Applications.
Out of my mixed bunch… some of those not yet retired and “less than 5 years” had to provide extra paperwork depending on their work status and other personal situation.
As a Prefecture worked through a particular dossier, sometimes more than one request for more info was made… which seemed to delay things but, in fact, merely confirmed that they were being thorough and that all was in order.
I am pleased to report that all of my gang were above-board and not one of them was refused the CdSWA .
Ah… then key to minimising those, as an established frontalier resident in France before 31Dec2020, it would surely be essential to get an S1 asap? Then the UK agrees to sponsor a big chunk of social charges.
Otherwise without S1 then I am sure as a French resident you’d be liable to tax on all your earnings worldwide and also social charges, surely? Unless you have a highly skilled financial adviser that says different- and opinions seem to differ of these people on various things even if you can find one, plus who knows how much various legislation will increase tax take in future?
I’m personally working on the basis of assuming everything is being taxed everywhere and only partially offset by any Double Taxation agreements.
That is not my understanding at all, it’s that with a five year card if you are out of France for more than six consecutive then right of residency falls away, whereas as this is not the case if you have aa 10 year card…(but if it’s a permanent one why does it only last years?)
Under the WA people here before 31.12.20 have permanent right to live in their EU host state and there are *very very * few reasons why one might be thrown out…you would have to be really naughty.
I’ve not seen it stated what the process is going to be to get a further card after five and ten years
To become a permanent resident you have to show that you have been legally resident here for 5 years. Which means you have to be able to prove that with tax returns showing you have met the minimum income threshold and health attestations covering the whole period, as well as having not been out of the country for more than 182 days in any of those 5 years,
In the old days this was carefully checked before you got a permanent resident card. British refugees with WARP cards may get a light touch approach. The residence is then permanent but the card has to be renewed (online process in most préfectures). Maybe to show you are still alive and resident in France?
Oh, and one of the reasons for a card to be withdrawn if it the holder is found to employ foreign workers illegally. So people should be careful of employing unregistered British workpeople for cash. May get your plumbing done more cheaply, but rather disastrous if you then get a notice to quit France!
Maybe, but what level of residency?
I get the impresson that the 5 year cards are being issued fairly freely (hence why this post exists), but that permanent cards are harder to come by.
I/we have permanent cards issued 18 months before WARP became an option & the process was very document/evidence heavy.
It seems clear that France has been very tolerant. I can see several possible reasons for this: firstly the WA itself insisted that countries ask for the bare minimim of justificatifs, secondly this was a sensitive issue, there were a number of organisations set up to support applicants and a large number of refusals would have caused trouble politically, and thirdly the current regime in France is very pro EU and keen not to appear to be reneging on its commitments under the WA, to the point of being more generous than it is obliged to be.
However if I had been in France for under 5 years I would keep EU requirements in mind for the following reasons. Firstly as far as I know the WA has not specified the conditions for renewal of the provisional cards. When the time arrives the support organisations will no longer be active and this will probably no longer be a politically sensitive issue. Secondly, we live in strange times and if somebody like Le Pen or Zemmour becomes the next president, France may become a less tolerant place. New arrivals will only have experience of France in its welcoming mode. Those who have been here longer will remember the days when early retiree Brits had to fight tooth and nail for the right to healthcare, which France attempted to withdraw from them.
For those reasons, if I had less than 5 years under my belt I would prefer to know that my rights were protected under EU rules because I had met all my obligations, than to rely on France’s continued tolerance and generosity knowing that I had not met my obligations and technically I did not qualify for permanent residence, and would have no grounds for appeal if, say, Ms Le Pen becomes president and sets out to create a hostile environment.
Exactly!
Permanent is the key word here.
Yes, the 5 year cards seem to be have sprinkled like confetti bit they are not permanent. When the 5 years comes to an end an application to renew will be required and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that renewal will require documentary evidence that the holder has indeed been a resident for the last 5 years ie. French tax return etc. This will then weed out the Dodgers from the genuine residents.
Surely people can see that this is the grand plan of the French administration and so it should be.
I seem to recall lots of to-ing and fro-ing about the cost of the CdS and its subsequent renewal (whenever…).
I believe that for those installed before 31.12.2020, the cost of the Initial Application would be zero and the cost of subsequent renewal/upgrades would be minimal… ie whatever is charged now to UE folk… (19€ or somesuch) … provided application for renewal/upgrade was made well in advance of the Card expiry date.
I’m sure that this detail will be highlighted/tested as times passes and some folk find they are eligible to upgrade their 5 Year Card… to the 10 year card… or whatever…
could well be… I was taking a quick look and saw mention of the 19€ which I didn’t consider exhorbitant, so looked no further…
(it’s better than the 200+€ some folk have to pay)
As I say… time will tell…
Meanwhile the Permanent ResidentWA card (itself) needs renewing every 10 years but the Right to Permanent Residency remains permanent… yippee.
Of course, there are reasons why a Renewal of a Permanent Card can be refused… if one has not complied as one should … but folk can take comfort from the general rule of being Permanent despite needing to Renew the card itself.
At the last outreach meeting this question was asked. The Embassy were not able to give a definitive answer. So I reckon people should plan on being treated like any other third country national, who have to pay over 200€. Why in heaven’s name should the British continue to expect to be given special treatment?
Why would an EU citizen require a CdeS…France has never required them (similar to UK when a member state) and even if a country does require them (Spain?) under freedom of movement an EU citizen can reside where they chose.
