CdS being obtained by non-resident second home owners

I’m not presuming anything. The sites are international (some have multiple names to appeal to different audiences, like Abritel and Home&Away) and they are required to provide information to the tax authorities

@LeRicain …I would suggest an absolute legal necessity… not just a good idea!

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No, I don’t presume that at all.

My remarks were for those who “own property” in France, and whether that property is rented or not is irrelevant in terms of French property-law.

Owning property has its obligations. I was addressing just one of those obligations.

PS: Frankly, do as you like. See what happens!

It feels like no one here knows of the existence of bots. Unless there is some law which makes it illegal in France, I would have assumed the money they they were putting into this would be creating programs which do this automatically using machine learning based on the data they already hold on people, and then perhaps if they find something they’re pretty sure of it goes to a human to look at. I imagine it will either it will either be that it’s entirely a threat to try to make people comply and they actually do nothing, or it’s tech based, which in 2021 if they throw a bit of time and money at it should be perfectly possible, there’s no need for them to be having buildings full of people searching the internet to find this stuff.

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The impots do employ people to trawl the various advertising platforms looking for unregistered gites etc but with literally tens of thousands of properties to check out many will go undetected.

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Your remarks were addressed specifically to me, and you suggested that I was presuming something that I am not. Plus your initial comment was about advertising in the UK, which is irrelevant to me as we don’t bother.

(Both our properties are for the French market and are entirely compliant and declared thank you).

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Worst of all, some these people voted for brexit!

Driving without insurance and/or CT are “crimes”, aren’t they? Anybody who would boast about it needs some “remedial action” IMO :slightly_smiling_face:

Hi,

To assure an old person, could you please confirm where this detail can be seen ?.

Is it the same as https://accueil.contacts-demarches.interieur.gouv.fr/media/uploads/2021/07/07/brexit-and-right-to-stay-frequently-asked-questions-01-juillet-2021.pdf ?

Many thanks.

Not the FAQ, but the terms and conditions of making an application.

“L’usager du service s’engage à ne fournir, dans le cadre de l’utilisation du formulaire, que des informations exactes, à jour et complètes. Dans l’hypothèse où l’usager ne s’acquitterait pas de cet engagement, le ministère de l’intérieur se réserve le droit de suspendre ou résilier la démarche administrative, sans préjudice des éventuelles actions en responsabilité pénale et civile qui pourraient être engagées à son encontre.
Il est rappelé que toute personne procédant à une fausse déclaration pour elle-même ou pour autrui s’expose, notamment, aux sanctions prévues à l’article 441-1 du Code Pénal, prévoyant des peines pouvant aller jusqu’à trois ans d’emprisonnement et 45 000 euros d’amende.”

Here:

Sorry I under quoted :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I’m sure it used to be 40, perhaps they’ve upped it!

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Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I do not see where the words ‘illegal to state you are a resident when you are not!’ correlate with getting a 45,000€ fine. That fine is clearly associated with making a false document.

It then goes on to say …
iIl est rappelé que toute personne procédant à une fausse déclaration pour elle-même ou pour autrui s’expose, notamment, aux sanctions prévues à l’article 441-1 du Code Pénal, prévoyant des peines pouvant aller jusqu’à trois ans d’emprisonnement et 45 000 euros d’amende. Textes officiels Relatifs à la demande de titre de séjour pour les ressortissants britanniques et les membres de leur famille résidant régulièrement en France ou venant s’installer en France avant le 31 décembre 2020, fin de la période de transition prévue par l’accord de retrait du Royaume-Uni de l’Union européenne

Which, unless my translation is wrong, clearly uses the term ‘residing regularly’ without that term being further defined.

Consequently, if the duration is not defined, how can anyone be accused of making a false declaration re residing?. Furthermore, what then does 'residing regularly mean in terms of weeks, years etc.

Sorry to be a pain, but I am trying to understand the actual requirements, and not what people believe/ hoped for/ been told/ read on a chat site/ etc etc.

Thank you

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Suggest you seek professional advice if you want to rely on the information.
Izzy x

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I wonder if you are misunderstanding the word “regularly”.
I think it does not mean, as in, on a regular basis.
It means, in accordance with the regulations. As in, to regularize an irregular situation.
So here, in accordance with your obligations as residents under French law.
Duration does come into residence, but it is not only about duration.

My interpretation is not, you have to visit France from time to time for x weeks at a time on a regular basis. I interpret it as saying, you must be a French resident and you must be fulfilling your obligations as such.

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The rules on who can apply are very clear as are the penalties for breaking those rules but the fact remains that very little proof for residency rights is required which is why many second home owners (and their family members) have successfully applied.

Google can only go so far… and it is understandable that some folk will cling to what they want/prefer/need to believe when using Google to translate.

For Example: Fonctionnaire régulièrement nommé.

Google translates this as “Regularly appointed official.”
which doesn’t mean an Official who is appointed regularly (with regularity, from time to time or similar)
It is an Official who has been “officially” appointed (to whatever post/position).

I suspect some folk are happy to think Google gets it right… as a basis for their dossier application… but, of course, they might well be putting themselves in a dodgy situation.

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You need to be proactive about declaring to the fisc. It’s due April/May each year. They won’t automatically ask. Go to your nearest Hôtel des impôts and tell them you need to register.

Like many other French:English words, régulairement can be a faux ami. Yes it can mean regularly, but can also mean “d’une manière légale”. Which is what I would presume is meant in this context.

Talk to a judge if you want to be 100% sure. But do you really think that the French intended to grant resident rights to visitors! However regularly they might visit…. Residence is not for second home owners, but for people who are permanent residents declaring assets for tax purposes, with healthcare etc etc.

Personally not worth the risk - well I don’t need to as I am a resident. It is not just a question of the potential fine and imprisonment (unlikely!) but that one could face notice to quit French territory or having one’s passport forever blocked from entering France! And having to have this hanging over one’s head; as at any point one could come to the attention of the authorities and trigger questions into the legality of one’s status. Simple things, like declaring one’s house as maison principale, or the local authority wanting to review the taxe foncière, or completing works after a planning permission, might then prompt the question as to where are the avis d’impôt? My experience is that it is asked for in the most odd circumstances….

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France’s public administration interface is becoming increasingly joined up and can already distinguish between residents and non residents. Try signing up with France Connect if the public records cannot identify you as legally resident. You will find it is not possible. If you are not known to the tax authorities, you are not “residing regularly” in the French sense of regularly, and France Connect will not recognise your existence.

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“Google can only go so far… and it is understandable that some folk will cling to what they want/prefer/need to believe when using Google to translate”.

Thank you all for your clarifications.

In my case it’s not at all about ‘clinging to any hope’, it was simply to understand what is/is not the real requirement. Had the French further quantified what they meant i.e. an ‘already officially recognised resident’ then I would not have needed to ask. However such ambiguity will no doubt have confused others. Presumably this is the same residency criteria as that which some ‘rich’ people use when then say they live/reside in Monaco, but in reality seldom ever go there.

That said, the issue of actual time residing surely must be of some account inasmuch as if it is perfectly legal to reside in France for 6 months of the year as long as it is not for more than 3 months in any 6 month period.

The bigger picture for me was the 3 months in 6 in the EU, as my time hitherto has been split between France, Spain and the UK, with different size thirds in different years. Hence the time duration limitation was a worry, far more so than where I pay Tax and Healthcare.

The Driving Licence issue is of more concern, and is something I will need to investigate further with hopefully the assistance of kind helpers.

In hindsight perhaps residency in Spain would have been a better option ?