I am afraid I really cannot answer with any certainty. To all intents and purposes they live here permanently, certainly they pay their taxes here, but they seem to be on long term visitor permits which have to be renewed each year. They may well not have been here for five years yet. During Covid the process seemed to fall to pieces because it was impossible to make appointments and for a while they were here on expired cards which worried them more than a little. I believe as you say there is at least in some cases the option of applying for a 10 year card once the one year card has been renewed a certain number of times in succession, I think five but I may be getting mixed up with the requirement for EU citizens or it may be the same for EU and non EU. But I imagine the possibilities and options will vary from one set of circumstances to another. Some visitors spend the entire year in France and are tax resident, others do not and are not. It would seem logical for it to be possible for âvisitorsâ who have been tax resident for five years to obtain the 10 year resident card on the basis of having become permanent residents, but not those who visit from time to time and retain their residence in another country. That is my best guess.
Perhaps rather than seeing âvisiteurâ and ârĂ©sidentâ as the difference between black and white, we should think of being a"visiteur" as being a temporary resident, ie potentially the first stage of becoming a permanent resident if that is the intention,. All visitors and residents who do not have the automatic right to reside have a titre de sĂ©jour, and all those titres de sĂ©jour give the holder the right to stay in France for as long as that card is valid. As to what it says on the card, who gets which kind, how long it is valid for and what you have to do to renew it or turn it into a different kind, those complexities are mystery to me. And I am glad that I am fortunate enough not to have to negotiate it all.
it is a very complex thing to work oneâs way around⊠the text goes on and on⊠and there are many variants.
CdS Visiteur or TdS Visiteur - one point that has jumped out at me is the fact that the ~Applicant agrees not to work⊠ie Visiting is what it says⊠and the Visitor must not seek employment/earn moneyâŠ
I think many of us are breathing a sigh of relief at our own situation⊠CdSWA does me just fineâŠ
It is the right to work here that makes a big difference. Visiting is just thatâŠâŠvisiting.
Generally all non-europeans need to obtain a visa, which will cost between 99âŹand 190 and then depending on the type of visa they can do an online process to magically change this into a carte de sĂ©jour. There are several different types: le visa long sĂ©jour valant titre de sĂ©jour, la carte de sĂ©jour temporaire, la carte de sĂ©jour pluriannuelle, la carte de rĂ©sident et la carte de sĂ©jour « retraitĂ© ». In some cases, such as being a refugee, you can get shorter terms docs like âun rĂ©cĂ©pissĂ©â. Which is why giving us a rĂ©cepissĂ© for our WARP applications was perfectly normal.
And getting a titre de séjour costs money⊠(which is what I think you meant Tory, not taxe de séjour).
Try getting into the Uk these days⊠2 years = £361, 5 years = £655 and 10 years = £822 for each member of your family⊠on top of the family visa of £1,500 plus the NHS surcharge. Try and do that on a minimum income (such as a lorry driver perhaps?) .
Yes you have put your finger on it here I think.
I can see logic in classing immigrants who do not have the right to work as Visiteurs, irrespective of how long they are visiting for, to differentiate them from residents who do have the right to work.
The American couple we know are retirees and have no desire to work.
On that logic, a non European who finds an employer in France and obtains a work permit would be issued with a Resident carte de séjour from day one. I wonder if this is the case. It sounds plausible.
Probably because most are honest and who cares about a few less sensible souls - there are many of them .
I can certainly endorse that 
I feel very lucky really (Iâd be even luckier if we were still in the EU but it is what it is, as people have a habit of sayingâŠ)
The employer would be the one jumping through many of the hoops in that scenario to be able to employ a non-European⊠But once all hurdles jumped the person involved would have full rights.
Dear Jane, why not be happy for the ones who managed better than you did? does that makes you richer? Be kind.
Really not sure I understand your comment! Since I have been established for years Iâm not sure how I could have managed better, or indeed who you are referring to that managed better, and managed what? And why should I want to be richer?
If it is about a CdS I made clear that it was a temporary irritation that people were being fraudulent and said⊠ânow I am calm about itâ. Their business not mine.
I, like Jane, get very irritated and frustrated by those who have illegally and dishonestly obtained CDS when they are not actually resident. They will of course likely eventually suffer the consequence when the French tax office start asking for tax returns, as those who claim residence will be liable to complete them. I imagine at that point we will be reading tales of woe and disgust with the system etc, my popcorn is ready for the event 
I just donât understand why anyone would do that. It will get very messy trying to extricate themselves from that bureaucracy.
Simple, because they can.
Proof of residency is minimal so unless the various government depts are âjoined-upâ so to speak thereâs a fair chance that people will get away with it.
I think the various departments are rapidly becoming very joined up so heaven knows what the results of that will be (and also whether the government thinks it is remotely worth their while bothering of course!)
I feel I owe @JaneJones a reply to her reply and here seems a good place being about absent CdS holders!
Pleased to report MMeâs CdS duly and promptly collected from the prefecture on her return from plague island - interestingly her passport was stamped on France entry, despite the printed e-mail âattestationâ - though at least it prompted a discussion with the stampers colleague when protested.
Janeâs comment got me reflecting though on the âongoingâ residency requirement - e.g. if I as a frontalier was here 6 months Iâd probably have my residence right transferred from that category to inactive? I know cross border teleworking ârestrictionsâ have been suspended due to covid at regular intervals - now up to November! - but one wants to keep on the right side of these things?
I know some on the forum are frontaliers who are between contracts and not travelling - I wonder how would less regular commuting (daily or once a week according to the EU definition) be viewed by authorities - if at all?
Janeâs comment is prompting me to research the residency requirements in a bit more detail - Iâll report back.
But meantime, on the non-resident second home owners topic specifically, if one has a permanent WARP - CdS (i.e. > 5 years qualifying period) then it (seems to be) perfectly OK (legal) to be tax resident in UK and maintain the status if you regularly (or at least every 5 years) return to reside in said second home - no mention of length of visit so one night would suffice?
And maybe there might be a moral sense too - people with second homes, been happy visiting for years say for a long summer, then brexit and now they have to get visaâs etc?
Presuming theyâd be deemed economically inactive they would need health cover? Required for exercising the (TFEU) treaty right of free movement / as per Directive 2004/38/EC? Could they not argue 3 periods of 2 months EHIC per year gave the required health cover and 6 months / year residency for 5 years? Or longer term travel insurance?
WA Article 10 (1) - ⊠this Part shall apply to the following persons: (b) United Kingdom nationals who exercised their right to reside in a Member State in accordance with Union law before the end of the transition period and continue to reside there thereafter;
At the start of the application it is made very clear that the WARP CdS is only for permanent French residents and not regular visitors which no doubt second home owners are, tax residency doesnât come into it.
I have had discussions with several second home owners over this and all of them without exception have thrown the âmoralâ argument at me whilst ignoring the bald fact that by obtaining a CdS they have committed an offence and therefore run the risk of tough penalties should they get caught.
A real ly nice border guard told me in August that he had to stamp my passport until I actually had a CdS. This makes sense to me as just because youâve applied doesn 't mean youâll be successful.
To have a permanent WARP card you have to have lived here legally as a RESIDENT for over 5 yearsâŠ.contributing to the system, with adequate resources and being here 183+ days a year. So the issue is that they have obtained this card fraudulently, not that they are using it fraudulently. After all, I could now leave France for 5 years should I so wish. But after 5 years I would have to return to be a legal resident, ie more than 183 days in a year, declaring taxes, joining health system and so on. A few may do that as they were planning to retire here, but most wonât!
There was a British Embassy online event last night, and in the rambling discussion on this issue the official did manage to state that WARP cards are for residents, not visitorsâŠ.
You either live here and pay into the system etc. or youâre a visitor/tourist/second home owner and donât. And I think that all those who have or in the process of getting cards fraudulently may well come unstuck in time. It looks like post-Brexit relations are going to be more than tested by the fishermen who are already kicking off about the non-renewal of their licences in UK waters, I think this is the thin edge of the wedge and just the start of what could be a rather low period in Franco-British relations⊠on verra !
I am really glad that OH and I have made a great effort within our community and surroundingsâŠ
âthe UK rubbishâ is often mentioned by French folk as they try to understand what on earth is really going on âover thereâ.
and ⊠after discussions⊠with lots of raised eyebrows etc on both sides⊠it is very comforting when they say to us⊠âdonât worry, itâs not your fault. We know you both, you are our friendsâ.
I cannot imagine that France will go around taking cards off people who shouldnât have them. It would be a waste of resources and would not benefit France in any way.
I can easily imagine that upon expiry of the provisional cards, permanent cards will not be issued to people who do not meet the most basic checks because they do have the expected tax records etc.
For visitors who requested a card because they basically wanted to be able to come and go as they pleased in the short term, this will not be a major problem.
For visitors who intended to eventually to move here and saw this route as a way to avoid the need for a visa when the time came, it may backfire because the fact of having been refused a CDS and having abused the system may go on record and may go against them in the visa application process.