Climate/ecological breakdown

I actually doubt that they are - or, to be more accurate, I think they have a vague idea that it might be a generally good thing but no true appreciation of how urgent it is.

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This may sound dreadful, but I wonder if that is what this world needs if it (and some part of modern humanity) is to survive? I find it heartrending that Neanderthals existed on this earth just under 400,000 years. Modern humans are wreaking havoc in a fraction of that time. Seems to me it’s time our species went - a very tough comment I know for those of you who have children and grandchildren. If we really want to make a difference in the face of climate change - don’t have children.

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But we’ve been told different things over the years - 1976 really hot it’s global warming, early 80’s cold winter it’s the return of the ice age! How can anyone be absolutely sure that the scientists are right this time? Are the extreme weather events nature’s way of redressing the balance? I agree with Sue that population growth needs to be limited but the main thing is tell us what we should do not what we shouldn’t. If it is at all possible is there anything simple and affordable that we can all do?

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There is, and we’re all going to do it

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This is where the media is currently failing us. We need really good docu-drama like Peter Watkins’ 1960s film The War Game, that actually communicates the horror of what will happen if we fail to curtail climate/ecological breakdown (though interestingly the BBC failed to broadcast that at the time, because (they said) they thought it would be too upsetting - thankfully lots of teachers etc - including my own - arranged showings - just as awareness now is being driven by activists despite political and mass media failure).

This is not true Sue. As Danny Dorling sets out in his immensely detailed evidenced book Slowdown, population is not a problem - indeed having a child you raise to become a climate activist is a much better contribution than not having children. He shows that the Earth - sensibly treated - could easily sustain its current population, which has already started to decline naturally anyway.

By every measure, the key problem lies in the economies and lifestyles of the privileged. For example, the richest 10% of the world produce about half of all the CO2, the poorest 50% only about 10%. This difference is even greater for other measures (energy consumption, plastic waste, etc).
Moreover, the attempt to focus on population is dangerously complicit with environmental irresponsibility: it enables the worst polluters, to say ‘it’s not us, it’s the others’.

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Interesting, optimistic account here of how climate activism is really working…

Although there were, indeed, reports of a possible “little ice age” (or even a full blown one) in the 70’s and 80’s even then the majority of climate scientists were more worried about warming - see eg https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

Besides what, exactly, is the consequence of being wrong about CO2 driven global warming - that we wind up living in a cleaner environment enjoying the benefits of technological spin-offs from research into low CO2 power generation and lower power, more efficient appliances earlier than we would be driven to it by running out of fossil fuels.

Set that against the consequences of getting it wrong and it becomes a no-brainer.

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Sorry Geoff, I disagree. My carbon footprint will continue to be smaller than yours to infinity because my gene pool stops with me. However well-meaning you might be, your future generations may include the greedy, the ignorant, the indolent. And they will continue to damage and pollute this world for as long as they continue to procreate.

Which is you and I along with everyone else on SF. :grinning:

I may live in a country of that nature but thats about it.
In the UK the subsidies applied to gas will be taken away and given to electricity (probably at a lower level) this is around 2028 so not having a heat pump will be expensive but will up the decarbonisation a lot I would imagine. Any news on what France has planned?

Bloody hell, what a statement!
Didn’t realise parenting included this, must try harder.
Presumably if your children are not climate activists then both you and them are a waste of space.

Not only that they’ve also got to be politically active/aware but if they are centre or right of centre then they need re-training.

None of this was in any parenting manual I’ve read and as parents we are clearly complete failures despite all four of our kids contributing to society with the youngest two willing to cut people out of cars and enter burning buildings.

We’re seeing the middle two next weekend so have a week to prepare our apologies for not bringing them up correctly. :grinning:

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At least you can educate them and put them on the correct path when you see them. Or maybe they will educate you :joy:

OH says I’m still in training, personally I think there’s no hope for me.

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Why? Your assumption is that it’s impossible for humanity to live sustainably - but this is not true. People have lived perfectly environmentally sustainably in many places at many times - for millennia.

Sorry Sue, but yours seems a really depressing and dangerous perspective to me - depressing because it sees nothing worth saving in humanity or civilisation - and dangerous because if we are nothing more than destructive as a species, why do anything to save us - why bother taking any action on the environment?

Read the book JohnBoy - Slowdown by Danny Dorling (it’s actually described in more detail earlier in the thread - you are unlikely, believe me, to ever read a more closely argued and evidenced analysis).

Shocking:

A scientist arrested for taking part in an Extinction Rebellion action at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) is on hunger and thirst strike after being held by police for more than 40 hours.

Emma Smart, 44, a marine biologist who has previously taken action with Insulate Britain, has had nothing to eat or drink since Thursday morning…

Smart said: “How come I’m the one being persecuted here for committing criminal damage with BEIS is still issuing new fossil fuel licences which will cause damage to the environment and future generations?”

On Friday, Smith was with scientists and medics at an XR protest outside Charing Cross police station. Jeff Waage, a professor of international development at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, held a placard outside the police station doors saying: “Science says new oil and gas = death.”

He said: “The arrests of scientists, keeping them from speaking out, is wrong and it’s preventing us from actually reaching the public with important scientific messages that are coming out of international research.”

How much gas does France use to generate electricity? UK is around 40% on an average day when not so much wind. I know France relies on nuclear a bit more than UK.

I read recently that France only generates about 6% of its electricity from all fossil fuels put together.

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