Climate/ecological breakdown

I wonder if anybody knows of a decent environmental analysis of shop vs. internet shopping?
Obviously shops use a lot of energy, and people travel to them - but my guess is all those delivery vans driving round to every house use more fossil fuel - and in terms of packaging, I guess shop deliveries feature outers containing multiple products, instead of the Amazon big-box-for-one-item approach.

It’s interesting how more environment-friendly consumption often seems to mean going back to arrangements I just remember from my childhood - eg. returning and reusing glass bottles, instead of throwing plastic ones away - and I suspect the old shopping model, where you walked with Mum to the local high street every other day and bought a little from each of half-a-dozen shops - was more environment friendly than either the out-of-town retail park or the internet-delivery models.

And this has got me to wondering if France’s famous retention of at least a bakery in almost all local areas has played a role in its social cohesion (relative to the UK or US for example).

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…and when we were all eating less, and moving around more, using up energy and likely to be physically and mentally fitter then than now….


That is what I do (more frequently than every other day) - only I’m mummy.


Yes - I was actually sitting in a bakery (one of those with a little bit on the side where you can get a coffee etc) when I wrote the bit about ‘France’s retention of a bakery in almost all local areas’ maybe playing ‘a role in its social cohesion’ - fascinating to observe the locals of all sorts - ages, colours - coming in for their daily bread and interacting far more than people ever seem to in out-of-town retail parks.

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Another great Guardian article here - again by a specialist rather than a journalist…

In France in 2018, when the government raised carbon taxes in a way that hit rural, low-income households particularly hard, without much affecting the consumption habits and investment portfolios of the well-off. Many families had no way to reduce their energy consumption. They had no option but to drive their cars to go to work and to pay the higher carbon tax. At the same time, the aviation fuel used by the rich to fly from Paris to the French Riviera was exempted from the tax change. Reactions to this unequal treatment eventually led to the reform being abandoned.

This is why we need the Gilets Jaunes.

The elite in Paris have no idea of the constraints of many of us living rurally

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Ugh Les gilets jaunes, they wouldn’t be as bad if they didn’t accrete all sorts of ghastly whoever, behave like arses and stop people like me getting to work on time.


They’ve d*** nearly stopped me getting to a plane! We still really need them round here though.

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I must admit I had very little direct experience of the gilets jaunes - it was not a huge thing in Brittany - or around us anyway - surprising given the region’s continuing history of radical politics and actions - the bonnets rouges were a really big thing here a few years ago.
(Did the sans culottes decree that all subsequent French protest movements must be distinguished by a peculiar article of clothing?)
They did briefly occupy a few roundabouts locally, but were pretty thoughtful - actually helping direct traffic if it built up (some cars stopped to offer support - which mainly seemed to be in the form of a friendly chat).

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Yes that was my experience in Brittany on a local roundabout…chalked opposition on the exit…thoughtful waving through of traffic…

Not at all what they did here, quite the reverse in fact. Very irritating if you have to be at work at a particular time (which I appreciate many people here don’t, but I do, hence my lack of patience).

Humanity needs to confront the fossil fuel industry head on, accept that we need to consume less energy, and switch into full-on emergency mode. The sense of solidarity and relief we’d feel once this happens – if it happens – would be gamechanging for our species.

Dont forget the poisoning of the oceans which massively reduces the oceans to inhibit CO2 as well.

Off topic but on topic to your post, that was a very odd film. I’ll give just about anything a go but I did at the end think ‘that’s two and a half hours of my life I’ll never get back’.

I haven’t seen it Kirstea - but it seems most reviews were negative - and reading ‘through’ what this article is trying to say doesn’t give a good impression of the film either.
However, that a climate scientist identifies so strongly with the politicians ‘fiddling while Rome burns’ theme is important I think.

Don’t look up was quite tongue in cheek with obvious tones of Sarah Palin as president, sadly it lacked Bruce Willis and his vest. Had my friend Sir Mark Rylance in it as a bad guy because he is British. Hahaha.

Trying to drive across country from Bordeaux to Lot, we were caught up in the very first Saturday of the gilets jaunes way back when. We avoided the autoroutes but it started badly on a roundabout somewhere in Landes where they were walking across the road constantly. A couple of gendarmes stood nearby. That’s normal I know… manifesting is allowed! I remember years ago, the gendarmes doing nothing but helpfully suggesting we take the Bourges road when protesting farmers had blocked the péage at Vierzon on the A20 with heavy machinery. Back to the story, after the first encounter in Landes, we took every tiny route we could. We then gave high ratings to the various small towns we passed through which had no gilets jaunes.

We got caught up in the battleground that was Rouen :upside_down_face: a police helicopter looked to be trying too blow out the fires from piles of burning tyres on the cow roundabout, there were fights with motorists going on along with the police, the police and the Gilets Jaunes saw our British numberplates and waved us through, much to the annoyance of other drivers there :laughing::grin:

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17 degrees here in Brittany yesterday. It’s not right, is it?

Its probably down to the solar flare, NASA predicted this I seem to remember. Just to remind us who is king in the global warming debate :joy: