Just wondered if anyone knows the answer to this one. I had one particular sale in February which came through my website, so the customer paid online through Paypal. This meant of course that I didn't get credited the full amount of the sale, as Paypal took their percentage. My Facture to the client showed the full amount of the sale of course. Shoud I declare the full amount of the sale or would it be possible to declare the amount that I actually got for the sale (i.e. the full price minus the paypal charge)?
I provide services but I am going to 'accidentally' put goods next time and see what happens.
In fact, at the end of the day it was the people responsible for fiscal affairs at the VN Embassy who confirmed all the information I gave and enabled me to get a 'split difference' that still left me a bit more our of pocket than seemed reasonable. I guess rather than over 50% tax I paid mid 30%s and still left the tax guys here scratching their heads... It seems simply to be a case that although I had paid a higher rate than here, they still could not not tax me something because whatever else I had income that I brought into France. Complicated and why in future I would consider such income not coming into France to begin with. Bad then, because it encourages evasion, but
It is for me simply that whenever I worked for one particular NGO who are in partnership with the government in Viet Nam I had to pay 25% to VN straight off. Other organisations pay an amount above the normal amount I would charge but these people could not swing it. So, for say $20,000 I was $5,000 gone, then because the French only had $20,000 to go on I was down to less than 50% of my gross. So I had to go to URSAFF with all the VN stuff like contract, tax regulations and my tax deduction receipt. VN argue that because the work was carried out there (in fact well under half because the report is written here, but OK the contract is not specific on such detail ever) I get nothing repaid. It took four months to reach an agreement and then I bit my lip rather than scream at somebody. It happens in other countries as I experienced whilst still living in the UK who then took 0% because I had already paid at a higher rate than theirs. It is simply ridiculous that there is no proper provision for double taxation when it cannot be 'lost' in expenses because it is already so much.
except when you pay double tax (in two countries) on the full amount as an AE then negotiate...
exactly Finn, the full amount has been cashed, then you pay paypal a handling fee but as an AE you can't claim expenses, they're taken account of in the tax allowance...
I beg to differ here. You should double-check with an accountant, but, unless rgistered for TVA, I have always been led to believe that it is the date and total of the actual amount cashed, the "encaissement", that counts. Just as you don't declare any unpaid invoices - the theory being that you haven't actually received the money, so how can it count as income?! This is a different issue from the fact that auto-entrepreneurs can't claim back expenses.
For example: You invoice for goods at say 100 Euros, you receive payment of 100 Euros and the goods cost you 50 Euros. As an autoentrepreneur you declare a turnover of 100 Euros and pay your 12% or so on the 100 Euros (this brings the actual cost of your goods to 50 Euros + 12% of 100 Euros so 62 Euros, and your "profit" is therefore 38 Euros).
If you invoice for 100 Euros and only receive, say 95 Euros through Paypal, it is my understanding that you should only declare 95 Euros and pay the 12% cotisations on 95 Euros.
It's worth bearing in mind with Paypal, that - hopefully this is still the case - if you invoice for "goods" you receive the full price. Invoice for "services" and they deduct a charge. Moralité - always invoice as "goods"!
I'm no accountant, though, so as I said, it is worth checking as the rules on these things change all the time
Well I don't know what sort of sums you're talking about. Technically you should declare the amount of the invoice/facture. Chiffre d'affaires is turnover and an allowance is made in the calculations for charges that you pay such as Paypal. If the French ask for paperwork, they will ask for invoices.
It is a system that is very different to those that Anglophones are used to so it is hard for us to get our heads around. The French systems are built on a different philosophical and value worldview to most Anglophone ones.
Whole amount I'm afraid. When I have had contracts in places where they deduct tax, etc I have had to declare the lot. It then takes skillful negotiation to get a bit of the difference back...
That was what I was intending to do but thought it worthwhile asking the question.
I'm with you on this Maria, it's the whole amount. The tax situation is very preferential for AEs to offset expenses that can't be claimed anywhere ;-)