Dental devis and complementaire help needed

Yes, sessions.

No, to clean up gums usually. I had the misfortune to get trench mouth, which is now uncommon periodontal disease. The cure was regular zapping away of the decaying tissue - in my case done done free by hand, by a number of dental students. Their professor got quite excited as had never seen quite as classic a case of TM before! The students were less excited because rotting gums do not smell nice.

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My gut feeling is you need a second opinion/quote as Vero says.

It may be you could do what’s needed in stages or reserve the ultrasound to a time when you might be in a better position mutual or finance-wise.

Also what Stella hinted - if you break a personal pension to get the funds I strongly suspect that will boost your declarable income massively - as that’s how the French tax system seems to view this - so no more CSS for you in the year after you do this as your income will then be too high.

Whereas I believe mutuelle contributions come off your income before tax is calculated? (Someone please correct me if not true?)

So if you can find a mutuelle with 300% on dental that doesn’t have a 3 or 6 month waiting period before they will cover treatment (and if anyone knows one I’m interested!), this might work out better if treatment is that expensive.

And as a UK dentist once quietly said to me about a quote from another dentist “Expensive machines have to be paid for”.

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I’ve not seen a place on the tax return for that aspect to be declared to be honest… doesn’t mean you are incorrect but worth investigating further… @fabien may have a view?

Never heard of that! If it were possible surely it would be in all the guides? Maybe you are think of employers who pay for employees mutuelles, which is not part of their salary so not taxable?

Obviously up to the OP but if he has serious periodontal disease then too much waiting is not a good idea. You can loose your teeth.

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Does this mean that CSS is still going to leave people uncovered for a lot of dental treatment (though I gather crowns are covered on 100% santé as of recently so will be covered on CSS although root canals still aren’t)…

So if there’s any way, even on a low income, scraping up for a mutual with 300% is a better idea if a way can be found even for a year as SuePJ suggested?

may be cheaper than extraction (I’ll get my coat) :flushed:

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This is not correct unfortunately, so I can confirm Graham’s suspicion :wink: Mutuelle is like any other insurance and that’s not something you can shave off from your income on tax returns.

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That on the other hand is correct… but that’s not really something we deduct. Instead it’s something you pay which is only partially included in your payroll so for example let’s say the employer’s mutuelle is 50e it’s highly likely that you’ll have only 25e included as part of your monthly revenue meaning that the extra 25e is “tax free” :wink: But whatever the situation the mutuelle is never something we can deduct from our income on tax returns, at least not something I’ve seen in my life and with any partners I’ve been working with (but I’m not an accountant so… who knows :wink: ).

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Since the poster has already said they are able and happy to pay and there does not seem to be any question of having to wait or needing to reduce the cost, I am confused about the point of some of the comments beyond of course, nobody wants to be ripped off.

I’ll respond generally and hopefully answer specific queries.

Yes, it’s bad apparently. Stage 4 severe bad. Not that I’m aware of it. I initially went to my dentist with a simple tooth ache. They x-rayed and saw the significant bone loss in my jaw (a sign of periodontitis). The tooth ache was caused by the tooth moving, there being insufficient bone to keep it stable.

The roots of my teeth need to be cleaned, to remove them of the scale/tartar that is feeding the infection. Some dentists do what they call ‘root planing’ (surfaçage radiculaire) and that involves cutting gums, peeling them back and scraping the roots. Lithotripsie is a non-invasive technique that uses sound waves to break up the scale. There’s a limit to to how much of it can be done in one go. That combined with how much of it there is to do means an undetermined number of sessions.

I will more than likely lose teeth, as the bone loss is significant. Certainly one (the one causing the ache) and most probably more. I will require replacements of some kind, either implants or dentures. All rather a surprise because, as I say, I only thought I had a toothache!

I’ll not go into the details of periodontitis but to say it is not at all uncommon. The majority of people have it in some form; you’ll see figures like 70% of over 60s. Which does beg the question as to whether this work is necessary at all, if it’s simply aging by another name. Just pull the culprit tooth and have done, Oh were it that simple! As periodontitis is linked to other diseases (respiratory, cardiac, even Alzheimer’s) it’s in the interest of my general health to get it sorted. Read up on it, it’s actually a fascinating subject. Certainly I was completely unaware.

With regard to the personal pension, it’s a trivial one, i.e. small value. Due to being non UK resident, I’m unable to purchase an annuity with it nor have flexible drawdowns. My only option is to cash it. Staged over 4 years (système du quotient I believe it’s called) it may have negligible effect on our tax situation - but I need to look into that a little more yet. And if I need implants, and they are an option, then I’ll need the funds for that too.

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Ah ok, I must have misunderstood

Let us not worry about the personal pension bit then. Cashing it is an option I fortunately have, it’s not a must. On current spending projections and budgets, I shall need to find the money from somewhere over the next 5 years. It makes as much sense to do it now as later, due to other circumstances.

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before taking any drastic steps regarding cashing in pensions… why not consider clicking on the image link above.
That will take you this page where you can seek professional help about your options.

Fascinating article in the grauniad all about a wretched woman trying to get dentists to take her seriously and ending up very ill as a result of untreated tooth problems.

When I was working for MSF I saw a splendid fit-looking Pathan chap keel over and die in hospital in Peshawar where he was visiting his wife because he had some toothrot related heart disease.
Afghans generally had good teeth because sugar was scarce and green tea is full of fluoride.

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I don’t think this is the case. DH has had both done on a few teeth and nothing to pay.

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Could you flesh that out a little please @toryroo ?

What isn’t the case and what did DH have done? Are they on CSS?

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I was replying about Karen’s comment regarding root canal. We have CSS as well and he has had I think 4 root canals and crowns done and we’ve never paid a centime.

I agree with the others talk to the dentist (or receptionist) and see if you can get a breakdown of whats covered and maybe get a 2,and opinion on treatment options, there may be another way to treat that is covered.

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If you can save your teeth that is really worth doing…friend just spent €10k on implants (courtesy of a very generous employer mutuelle).

100% santé will cover basic treatment, but not necessarily the most beautiful option on all teeth. And root canals can be done at different levels too, for different prices.

Inflammation of the gums has become a major issue in so many diseases.And links to cardiac problems are pretty irrefutable now. So dental care is amazingly important. I wouldn’t hesitate to spend money on it (assuming I had it of course).

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Given how France is pretty good on taking a preventative stance (eg cancer check ups and bilan de sante) I’m amazed there isn’t better cover for dentistry.

I agree about getting a second opinion and also getting a breakdown of costs. I’m very fortunate in that my dentist gives alternatives in his devis so I have options after discussing it with him.

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