Dental devis and complementaire help needed

Ah okay, thanks. I was reading the thread on my tablet and I didn’t see that you were replying to a particular comment. I see that now, apologies :slight_smile:

Also, I couldn’t reply immediately as my post count was limited due to being a newbie.

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It’ll improve - you’re posting well but perhaps make some contributions in other topics to help matters along?

re 2nd opinion/devis, it’s obviously an option but there is a consideration to take into account. The dental-surgeon I was referred to uses a particular method that is not overly common (and not used at all in the UK) so a 2nd opinion mightn’t be comparing like for like. It’s known as the Bonner method. I knew nothing about it prior to seeing them but have since researched it - and I like the sound of it and so am keen to take this path.

During my reading/research, I had my eyes opened to the importance of dental/oral health - as others, like @JaneJones , have referred to. Not just to the teeth and gums but to the overall health; what starts as a gum infection can make its way around the body. I was made aware of how unaware we all are generally, even to something as simple as good dental hygiene.

To answer my opening question, I think I now see why my mutuelle responded as they did. The answer lay partly in the first response, from the aforementioned JaneJones, but @Sandcastle also chipped in by pulling apart and illuminating the process. The mutuelle’s response was a “standard form of words”; a generic, template answer that didn’t address my specific query (i.e. was the devis reimbursable) and instead pointed out the process. That’s what confused me.

I’m used to customer services and the like responding with non-specific and somewhat unhelpful template answers but I neglected to think about that when I read the mutuelle’s response. I thought I was receiving considered and tailored advice! :laughing:

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If I can add something somewhere along the way then I might well do that. I’ve read enough over the years so I guess it’d be nice to ‘give back’, if and when I can. Thing is, most folk are way more knowledgeable than me and I don’t want to misinform and am happy to bow to superior wisdom.

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So best thing now is to chat to you dentist to see what if any is paid back and by whim. Good luck, let us know how you get on.

I think you will find that SF’ers are in the main kindly when responding to posts from new contributors finding their feet - indeed, the SF Team as well as other right thinking members are constantly on the lookout for ad hominem attacks and call them out very swiftly.
As well as a discussion forum, SF also has a wealth of Q&A content and individual personal experiences are always welcome.
Please don’t feel threatened by an apparent “superior wisdom”, if you wish to make a contribution, right or wrong, go for it - someone can always put you on the right track if you have uncertainties (and often do) but in a friendly way.
Remember, the man who never made a mistake, never made anything :wink:

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Thank you for the link, very informative and helped me understand a little more about the process. Sadly, it seems my treatment would not be covered by it but it’s certainly something to know for when I get implants, dentures, bridge work, whatever.

I think perhaps the ‘100% santé’ program might even be the backdrop for the response from my mutuelle. There’s almost an implication in their answer that the dental-surgeon wasn’t adhering to these new “modalities” when perhaps the ‘100% santé’ scheme does not actually cover the treatment being done - so the dental-surgeon had no need to detail his devis in that manner.

@jwall Incidentally, what controls your activity in SF is governed by Trust Levels.
You can see Trust Levels by selecting the “hamburger” (3 line icon) menu and selecting it from there…

I don’t know whether, in French/France, dentists are included in the general conversation regarding ‘medical deserts’ but it does seem focused on MTs and hospitals, certainly on the TV news portrayals. I know it’s a devil of a job to find a dentist around here, and that seems to be a shared experience across many regions if the posts on this forum are anything to go by. So much so that people simply give up looking, tired are they of phoning around.

The dental-surgeon I’m seeing remarked to me, when I mentioned the difficulty people have in finding a dentist, that there’s insufficient funding for training, and the job itself is not seen as an attractive, well enough paid one, for people to want to train in it.

As a result of the reading I’ve been doing, and my now awareness of the importance of dental health to general health, I could almost go political about it. As I say, my eyes have been opened.

So glad….my mother was a dentist and my childhood was spent defending dentists. Critical aspect of overall health :grin: I have rheumatoid arthritis, it is an auto-immune disease that with many people lies dormant unless triggered, and there is increasing evidence that one trigger is gum inflammation. And it then goes on to attack heart, lungs etc if inflammation levels in the rest of the body aren’t controlled.

The issue in France is complex, lack of training places was due to the infernal numerus clausus limiting training numbers, that was finally ditched last year. So should see the effects of this in a few years. But for dentists another issue is that the social security base de remboursement for the various acts has hardly changed so that makes it harder for them as unless patients have a good (aka expensive) mutuelle they will have to pay a fair bit. And people resent that as “it’s only teeth”! They’d pay that for their car….

A worthy subject to get political about!

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Indeed, from the reading I’ve done it seems links are being found. I got the impression that it’s comparatively new research but periodontitis (and more particularly the amoeba entamoeba gingivalis) seems to be linked to a number of diseases, autoimmune and otherwise. I’m not critical of people for not knowing btw, far from it, we all try to implement best practice based on what we’re taught etc but for me, these days, it’s not much ‘only the teeth’ as ‘it can start in the mouth’

I consider myself lucky that my dentist picked up on it and referred me to a specialist, as I was completely unaware of a problem. Without intending to be too dramatic, he may have saved my life!

Had a hunt on the Ameli forum. (Very useful by the way) I found this so far:

Then this is a link to the Code on CCAM (Classification Commune des Actes Medicales) official Assurance Maladie site:
https://www.ameli.fr/accueil-de-la-ccam/trouver-un-acte/fiche-abregee.php?code=HBJA634
Now check this out too:

And this

I see that much of this has been covered but nevertheless, the links are useful. I don’t know if you picked up on treatment being covered if you are diabetic or perhaps if you have an ALD due to heart problems, for example.

If you have a Dental hospital anywhere near where you are, it may be worth paying them a visit.

Good luck.

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Metal crowns only, not ceramic ones.

Significant bone loss would preclude implants. When I had my 4 implants done, a fifth could not be done because of bone loss, caused by the fact that the original tooth had been missing for some time.

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Thank you for taking the time to look @StirlingMouse

Yes, I did search the Ameli site and found it a useful reference but tbh perhaps a little unhelpful to me specifically with my query. Often the questioner asking about periodontal treatment was met with that ‘refer to this list’ response. It looks to all intents and purposes as though it is reimbursable but yet I got refused. Indeed, I got the €240 figure I quoted upthread from that 2nd site you referenced.

The ALD / diabetic link thing is interesting. I’ve seen it sometimes mentioned and sometimes not. I thought it might be a reason for me being declined but it wasn’t referenced by my mutuelle so I don’t know.

As it happens, I was at the dental-surgeon’s surgery yesterday to sign the devis and get appointments for the 1st phase of cleaning. I discussed the reimbursement with the secretary and they actually said they knew it wasn’t reimbursable but offered to give me an invoice to try again if I wanted. I declined as I’d rather forget about it and simply move on with the treatment.

Yes, and I suspect I will be in that boat.

I was told I have 17 (yep, seventeen) teeth in danger of needing removal. There’s significant bone loss and a good number of large pockets (gaps between tooth and gum that both destabilise the tooth and, more to the point, become sites for infection) They’ll need to be cleaned and closed before any final assessment can be made.

On the good news front, my gums have responded excellently to the first step and that gives an encouraging start.

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Ceramic are covered on incisors and canines up to €500 a pop.

Ah, so not molars. The OH had a molar crown done 2 months ago, and they would not cover a ceramic crown. Interesting that incisors and canines are covered. I suppose it could be a cosmetic thing ? She just had another molar pulled yesterday :cry::confounded: and is in recovery mode today, lots of tlc.

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I am not trying to say that your treatment is not necessary, it sounds very much as though it is, but I would take statements like this with a pinch of salt, TBH. Unquestionably there is a correlation between dental health and other health problems, especially dementia etc, but much of that is cause and effect - people with Alzheimers (like my late father in law) neglect their teeth and get dental problems as a result. Poor dental hygiene is also an indicator of someone not taking care of other health problems, allowing them to become worse and harder to treat.

Not suggesting these apply to you, but a few interesting scientific papers can so easily get misinterpreted and exaggerated by newspapers - it helps sell papers. There could be a link of course, but it is far from being proven (lack of evidence of causality is not the same as evidence of lack of causality).

I should get out more, I know.

I don’t read newspaper stories, but scientific journals and Cochrane studies and the case for causality in many instances is now much clearer.

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