It’s also worth mentioning - while we’re talking about proof - that it’s possible for sincere people to look at “the evidence” and come to opposite conclusions.
But then, I didn’t use proof or logic when I proposed to Mrs P.
1 Like
In our present phase of western society, we do, but that hasn’t always been true and probably won’t be at times in the future. Views change gradually but constantly about what is right and good.
Is objective proof even possible when we are talking about religion? - Adams had a point about proof denying faith.
1 Like
I concur, even wanting proof means one lacks faith. Faith on its own should be enough. After a good start (jelly and ice cream after my 1st Holy Communion) in London my faith was badly dented by subsequent vicious school beatings from God’s representatives on Earth. I suppose, in a way, they did me a favour and purged any semblance of belief from my adolescent soul 
But for anyone still struggling dial 1-800-Jesuit or go to Jesuit,com (all currencies accepted).
1 Like
More HHGTTG:
Majikthise : I mean, what’s the use of our sitting around half the night arguing whether there may…
Vroomfondel : Or may not.
Majikthise : …be a God, if this machine only goes and gives you his phone number in the morning?
I totally agree. Have you read Dr Ben Goldacre’s book Bad Science? His chapter on homeopathy is a treat. Obviously it can have a placebo effect…after all, there’s nothing in it. The more it’s diluted, the stronger it is. Fancy that! People, somewhere, are making a fortune.
1 Like
Yes, good book…
Agreed. And his mum was the lead singer in Fox (Single Bed, Georgina Bailey etc etc).
Noosha Fox, and foxy too in the day 
I don’t think we should reject something without first trying to understand the process involved. To say that homeopathic remedies can’t work because they are so diluted that the original ingredient (OG) is effectively no longer present misses the point. The OG is in fact usually poisonous, so reducing or even eliminating it is desirable. The theory is that by mixing it with water, and, I believe, shaking it vigorously in the process, the essence/properties/characteristics of the OG are transferred to the water, so the eventual complete absence of the OG is irrelevant. This process has not, and probably cannot be scientifically proven (yet). But just because something is not scientifically proven does not necessarily mean that it doesn’t work. Are psychological therapies “scientifically” proven?
Big Pharma’s business model consists of “discovering” a treatment, “scientifically proving” its effectiveness, patenting it and charging big bucks for it. Homeopathic remedies have been around so long that anybody can manufacture them, and the doses are so small and taken so little that you can’t make much money out of them, so there is no money for expensive studies.
Homeopaths are usually empathic, and take the time to listen to their patients, unlike most doctors, thus also influencing the (placebo?) effectiveness of the treatment.
I like to keep an open mind about such things, and I have to confess that I have been to a homeopath, and that afterwards the very annoying attacks of eczema that I had been having for most of my life virtually stopped. I don’t want to start discussing cause and effect, but it does make me think.
As Paracelsus observed “Sola dosis facit venenum”
I don’t mind the idea that there are phenomenon for which we don’t have answers (the cosmological constant, dark matter, the unifying force, the infinite gullibility of MAGA supporters…) but this has to be rubbish.
The water homeopaths use has, inevitably, “been around the block” and picked up the “essence” of who knows what - why should the homeopathic remedy carry only the beneficial properties that the homeopath wants and not some noxious property from another equally dilute component?
Almost - “big pharma” wants patentable medicines so having “discovered” the active compound they spend a lot of time chemically tweaking it to make it more effective, less toxic and unique enough to get that all important patent (without which anyone can copy the drug and steal the breakfast of the company that did the legwork to develop it).
But sure - patenting a glass of water is difficult, even in the US patent system.
FTFY
So do I as it happens though I like things to pass a basic sniff test (which homeopathy doesn’t as far as I’m concerned).
I don’t know about that - I’m sure that there are many respectable homeopaths that don’t set out to swindle people - I’m sure that you were one.
But here are also a lot of quacks and charlatans in that space peddling people false hope in exchange for large amounts of money, and I have nothing but contempt for them.
No harm in that. I’m glad your eczema is better by the way.
Have you seen the price of the homeopathic remedies in pharmacies? And some of these companies like Nelson’s may not be the billion dollar pharma companies but keep their owners rather comfortable.
1 Like
Mrs. W suffers with arthritis in her hands. For years she had meds to help but really upset her stomach. I suggested and then applied a clay compress that I’d used on horses, since she uses nothing else and very happy with the result…
3 Likes
Well I think arthritis comes under auto-immune diseases? those where the body is in some way fighting itself. So anything that can disrupt that cycle is worth trying and there might be many ways to do that. Manipulation, massage, pressure on particular nodes, electrical, magnetic, distraction or diversion, warmth or cool or fan, pharmaceutical blocking medication etc. Or a flash of something in water that is close enough being water to much of what we’re composed of, but with just an infinitesmal trace of something carefully chosen that is different, might stimulate the body to adapt something that might also help stop the harmful ‘body fighting itself’ loop.
I think I’m an atheist, but prayer of others or even something similar by me, still seems to help, and I’m sure homeopathy will work for some people whether they believe in it or not.
1 Like
There are several types of arthritis, and yes some are auto-immune. But the most common tend to be mechanical leading to inflammation, so osteoarthritis. Which is not auto-immune.
One can take anti-inflammatories to calm the inflammation, but also non-chemical treatments like clay can help (also heat/cold packs/) as they take the edge off the inflammation. (@Wozza Mrs W might also like to try green lipped mussel extract, often sold as Perneton which is rather useful too).
The idea that homeopathy could be effective for auto-immune versions does make me howl 
. Once completely triggered these things are extremely hard ro get back under control.
2 Likes
Or is it?
As I said….
Inflammatory is not the same as auto-immune.
1 Like
A good point (I prefer valid arguments to fun-poking), but you are forgetting/ignoring that the process doesn’t just consist of diluting the solution. The vigorous shaking may well make all the difference.
Agreed. Not only in “that space”. But we shouldn’t tar the serious people who really believe in what they are doing with the same brush.
My homeopath didn’t recommend Nelson’s. She said that they are not idealistic but profit-orientated.
If you have a genuine traditional therapy, as I did, you are only given one substance, which doesn’t cost any more, or indeed less than the creams I was using before. The more expensive combinations are not the genuine article.
Whilst I agree with your last comment, what is the cause of the inflamation? Is it ultra processed foods or a combination of ultra processed foods causing the body to respond with inflamation?
We watch and we wait… The blood supply to cartilage is poor as we age is that lack of blood supply down to what we eat and our lifestyles? Several studies suggest it is. Likewise finding micro plastics in our arteries is a fact of our modern lifestyles.
While not disagreeing with your ultra processed food theory, as I’ve never eaten that stuff, I attribute my own currently minor arthritis to genetic relay. In other words, I blame my mother!