Dogs in France - I wish they didn't!

Ignoring momentarily the moral aspect, I can’t see any practical advantage, so why would anyone do it? Except of course, the ancient Greeks and later the Romans flaying early Christian martyrs. Not sure about the Taliban’s position on this, but wouldn’t be surprised if Isis were in favour of it. Evidently they find the Taliban a bit too liberal!

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Says you :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I thought the same as happy to be self sufficient if the need arises in the future so have my flock of chickens. 2 years ago our older neighbours came to show us how to kill / pluck / butcher some roosters (my grandpa’s always did that so grew up iwth it but never even saw it happen - sheep and pigs yes but chooks no). I was still VERY endeared with my chickens at the time and they all had names. King William is still in the freezer (and no doubt ready for the bin by now!!). I just can’t bring myself to eat one of my favourite ever roosters! If the SHTF one day then of course. Now not so much!!!

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I have had hens, they are very endearing creatures - that doesn’t alter the fact that people will shut their eyes to appalling cruelty in order to get cheap eggs or meat while sentimentalising their pets.

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@vero Nobody feels sorry for chickens or poor old crabs etc.

Yes they do, some of us anyway. I am a total hypocrite on the subject though pouncing on cheap chicken thighs for both us and the dog, but I am trying very hard to become a veggie. Not easy though. :slightly_frowning_face:

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If people would spend a little more eating higher welfare meat less frequently they would
end a lot of the suffering and enjoy a more flavoursome product on their plates.
I think first that there needs to be honest labelling of meat. In the UK they label pork from pigs not living their entire lives indoors as ‘outdoor bred’, ‘ourdoor reared’ and people only understand the best of these systems ‘free range’. I think more shoppers would choose higher welfare meat if they could see images of livestock farming practices on their product.
We buy our pork from farm shops and it’s a joy to see the animals. I can live with eating them knowing they have had a life however short. I’m no saint else I would be a vegan but my conscience is somewhat eased though thoughts of the abbatoir experience are very unsettling.

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Many people just do not where their food comes from, or what it involves to get from farm to their plate.
How many children understand that to have milk a cow has to have a calf?
We had a young firl from Paris staying in our gite who was absolutely amazed that she could pick our cultivated blackberries and then eat them, she had only seen them sold in expensive punnets.

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For some time now I’ve avoided chicken. The cheaper the offers the worse I feel.

And beef here can taste good but a suspicious amount of water comes out of it compared to where I’ve cooked it elsewhere. (I cook beef properly, soz to anyone here with French taste for raw or half-cooked meat :slight_smile: )

I’m finding this all quite worrying about hormones antibiotics and animal welfare and didn’t expect to find it in France. In the UK I manage to avoid such sources but haven’t found the ways in France yet.

The Supermarkets seem to be proud of displaying the fact that their meat is not fed on GM, but I have not seen anything to the fact that they have an animal welfare scheme such as Red Tractor or the RSPCA Freedom Food

Antibiotics and growth hormones are associated with intensive livestock breeding. To avoid them don’t buy meat in supermarkets, instead buy organic, or on local markets from a local producteur whom you can trust. Find a good nose to tail butcher and a specialist charcutier who raises his own pigs, look for signs like ‘elevage traditionnelle’, ‘neuf mois sous mère’ (veal) and ‘porc noir’. We live at the junction of the Aveyron, Cantal and Lot, and don’t have any difficulty sourcing good quality local meat.

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A lot of focus in France is on the nutrition of the beasts, not welfare. Sadly France is a bit behind. Look up L214 which is one of the few organisations here working to improve welfare standards…

I also wonder whether things like the Red Tractor scheme will survive in a post Brexit world where British farmers are facing greater competition without the EU protections. .

Sadly this doesn’t guarantee animal welfare. For example the very small print of some certification schemes allows antibiotic use in first days/weeks of an animal’s life. Others only prohibit regular antibiotic use but allow them to treat vet certified sick animals. Organic labelled animals can ne kept indoors, in cages, have their beaks clipped etc etc.

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The problem with statistics is that they are out of date as soon as they are published. Dogs kept as companions are well-suited to country locations where owner and dog can walk for miles in the countryside. Spare a thought for the high density housing virtually everywhere in the UK. During the pandemic there was a vast increase in the numbers of dogs kept at home as Covid prisoners looked for company - hence the reason the figures being used to compare France with the UK might possibly be completely out of date.

Now that some areas are getting back to some sort of normal, the extra pets are a bit of a liability. The mess caused by the new dog owners, who do not now have the time to look after their dogs properly, is gradually fouling all the local footpaths.

I buy lamb, pork and duck from small local producers that I know. I get beef from Intermarché - it comes from farms in the region and has always been good. Oops! I noticed the title… this thread has morphed well away from dogs!

Our farmer neighbour has about 7 dogs, only one of those is a working dog, an intelligent collie who accompanies the farmer everywhere and rides around on the back of the quad. The others are for hunting - hounds and terriers. I feel for them because they only get to go out of their enclosure from September to February.

We have found lost hunting dogs on two occasions. Both had collars and phone numbers and the owners were very happy to retrieve them. I have a favourite hunting dog encounter. I was in the kitchen cooking, with front and back door open. I must have sensed something and looked up, to see two hounds in the room, just standing there, looking around. They must have come in by the front door. We said our hellos and they politely left by the back door!

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We buy our chickens with their heads and beaks still attached

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I usually buy meat directly from the farm. I love raw meat so I want it not full of rubbish, I also love offal (cooked!) And liver and kidneys and brains etc need to be good quality if they are to be delicious.

Edited to add that ‘properly’ is surely very subjective :grin:

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Sausage dog?

Sorry.

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You get pie dogs in India…

Pie dogs? :nauseated_face:

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Nooooo not pies you eat, pie dogs are stray mongrelly dogs, sometimes very pretty. On my way to the office one day in Mumbai I saw a lovely dog sitting on a wall and remarked on it.
My colleague who was giving me a lift curled his lip and sniffed dismissively and said “THAT is not a pet dog, pet dogs are fluffy”.

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I always knew them as PYE like the :tv:, not pie like :pie:, which creates a little less confusion :rofl:

And I thought they were pi dogs… Much variation between countries I suppose.

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