Doing a masters degree in France - how to approach it?

General Discussion
1

Hi all.


I have a bachelors degree from a Danish University and thought about topping it up with a master here in France.


At the moment I am however living a bit in the outskirts, so either I will have to do quite some commute to attend lectures - or I have to look into one of those "master à distance".


These kind of courses does not yet really exits in my native country (think it is to small size- and population-wise), and therefore I am approaching them with a certain scepticism.


Do any of you know anything about this? If I do a "master à distance", will the masters degree be recognized and valued as good as if it was from a "real" university? Which naturally leads to the next question: will employers hire you if you have one of them as opposed to a degree from a "physical" university?


All input welcome, thanks ...

2

I have deleted both of your posts Cate and Brian.

If you want to continue 'your' discussion, please take it into the kitchen.

Thank you.

3

It is not top in the overall rankings in Europe, London Business School is, Insead in Paris is higher than HEC but high enough anyway. However, the profile shows that HEC and IEBS shared the Business School top rank in 2013, but that is not for the area you are looking at, all more to do with financial management. ESCP came second in Masters in Management though. That is one that might be worth All Financial Times ratings appear to be good and concur with QS, THES and so on. However, these schools are very good indeed but private and quite expensive from what independent reviews hint at but never say directly. If you have the money then I would absolutely agree with Cate. In the rankings there is nothing really closer although a couple of Swiss ones are just about as accessible, but then they really are expensive! As for distance learning, they don't mention it but describe one year (and longer) courses one or two of which I would have considered if I was younger and in need still.

4

It's fine. I really can nearly read Danish because I have a German dialect, reasonable Dutch and learned Norwegian, plus the English and Scots. Mix them all up and actually northern Europe is a wide open door ;-)

Anyway, continue. I was only teasing you both.

5

I can roughly read you ;-)

University of Copenhagen has entered the top 50 universities in the world for the first time ever after making very big leaps. So, Danish degrees are theoretically more 'valuable' than French ones!

6

Again quite easy Ditte. Business studies of any kind are not on the quite short list of ones that give subsidies. My guess is that just like other countries they expect people to be sponsored by employers, study while working and all costs (since when did free mean free any longer?) would be covered that way.

7

Donna, it depends on the discipline area you are looking at. French universities are rating very low nowadays. depending on which areas you look at the top four inevitably consist of Harvard at the top followed by any permutation of Cambridge, MIT and Oxford, CIT and Stanford. Without going back to look, I believe that ENS comes in in the mid-60s then the École Polytechnique is the next highest French rating at 70th and then I think there is one more toward the end of the top 100. SciencesPo is probably somewhere after 100 but I didn't go looking that far. The Sorbonne was always in the top five when I was a student in the 60s. Looking at research ranking, France has two universities in the top 50 and less than 20 in the top 400. That is across the board. When you start to look at the quality evaluations France is not doing well but there reasons are never spelled out. Try looking yourself; THES, QS, Forbes and other sources will tell all. I was quite surprised by what I saw.

So, a sweeping statement, no. However, repeating views held by those who do the ranking may look that way except that it simply shows what we always knew when I was still an academic, the world of learning is changing fast and universities that do not compete are going to pay the price in the long term.

8

I was thinking about Andrew's answer as I drove home. When I got here I found Norman's response. It made me think a little further. So I took a look at the Times Educational Supplement's 'intelligence' on business studies. It is more or less the most widely accepted and impartial listing worldwide and when you really look through all of their reviews and so on there are usually answers. They have little on distance learning though, but then 90% or more is simply rubbish anyway. Beware also, many masters degrees are a waste of time because they go through the motions but not teach anything whatsoever. The vast majority of the private schools are no more than an office from where they send out pre-prepared 'courses' and pay people, many of whom are not qualified properly, to mark and supervise the courses. The exams are not worth a cent and the qualifications worth less.

Take a look at the simplest table of ranking for business schools in the TES. In business studies the top French rating is 65th. I know what Andrew is saying and agree but recent details of just over 40% of all French postgraduate students looking for study places outside of France and increasing, with the majority of them now looking for international qualifications, then the goalposts are moving fast. France has a bad record on all business training so far with exception of a couple of Paris universities and international business schools (mostly US) in Paris. Big companies are looking for people who can work with and/or in other countries, so business studies in other languages, which are mainly English in the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway... are gaining favour. If, like Andrew, it was languages or a social science like me then I would go for French. Even the French business community know there is a world outside.

There are no specific distance learning masters included, but these are university and business school rankings. There are various reviews of the masters courses but several contradict the other so do not take them as seriously. Otherwise Norman has just about said exactly what you need to know:

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking/businessstudies

9

Super feedback - thanks!

Andrew - my objective is a goal here, and I think we agree on the tendency from companies to lean towards resume with French studies listed when inviting to job-interviews. In my area there is actually quite some international companies, but since they operate from France, they will have to follow French rules (doh!) and so, logically, it will be smart if I learn those rules. :)

Brian - I had also found IAE in Bordeaux and how now had the time to look more into it. First things first I would have to begin with a "M1 Management - DPGA" and for what I can see the classes are given as 17 séminaires of 2 days each ... which all of a sudden makes a lot more accessible for me. That could be organised within my family-set-up - so that's a good start.
I will give Leicester a look also - just for the fun of it! :)

But then comes the next question ... how about finances.
As I understand it the IAE is for "free" (there's probably some minor tuition fee, book fee or the like, but we're not speaking USA teaching fees, are we?) - is that correct?
In Denmark, my privileged tiny home country, you can actually get money from the state when you study (on a normal, recognized school / university). And I know some women here that has been studying nursing and to become a nou nou, and they got some kind of state subsidies. Do any of you know anything about the financial side of being a master student here?

Norman - Yes! I always wanted to be a brain surgeon. Can you help me? :) Kidding aside - I want to dig into the theories and practicalities of Human Resources (which, for me, is a natural add on to my bachelor in Organizational Communication) with the goal of eventually getting a job in the field. Theoretically I would like to have an internationally recognised degree, but as I've written above my immediate goal is a job in France, and therefore I have to choose a French master.

So far the IAE in Bordeaux seem like a good option (thanks for the research Brian) - but will now have to look into the financial side of things ... phhhew.

10

Brian, curious to know what your source is for the international rating of French Masters degrees. That’s quite a sweeping statement, don’t you think? Does that include SciencesPo in Paris?

11

Hmm. Tricky one this as it is often 'horses for Courses'. As a former Prof at European Business Schools, and United Business Institutes in Brussels for both BBA and MBA studies (my subjects were Marketing and Communications), I would have to put my hand on my heart and say that 'Masters Degrees' certainly in my sphere are as valuable as the University or Institution providing same. In other words a Degree from Harvard has a lot more clout than one from the University of Delhi!

Personally although I have given such courses online myself, a 'degree' issued by me would be next to worthless as a piece of paper, and the same applies to others. Quality of course is variable and online you haven't the faintest idea of who the lecturer is and his or her qualifications. In my case I had NO formal qualifications but some 40 years of international experience and a very good reputation to boot, plus being a published author in my subjects.

My students ranged as far as from Vietnam, France, Belgium, Israel, Tunisia, England, Japan, Hungary and later Russia and the Baltic States. The most important point being people wanted Degrees in English and from recognised and reputed companies using that language.

It depends on what you want and how portable you want it to be. IF you only want to work in France then go for a French degree, but be aware that internationally (because despite protestations to the contrary most international business people do NOT have French as their first or even second language and so have no comprehension of whether the degree is worth anything as they can't read it!)

Which brings up the important point of what do you want the degree for? Is it just to be able to wave an impressive looking piece of paper at a prospective employer OR a way to learn something - and believe me these are different considerations for many people. My understanding is in France there are about three institutions issuing degrees that count in France (alone) and you can do the usual online checks of 'Top' etc. As these are all French, they have only limited value elsewhere for the reason I have stated above.

IF you want an internationally recognised degree then you need to pursue English-Language Courses and these are few and far between in France as far as I know.

Places like Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany and of course the UK and America are good resource programmes and places like the US North-Western and Thunderbird used to offer online courses for degrees, which reproduces the circle - the degree value is only as good as the institution issuing it.

Another point is what subject(S) do you want to study? Trade type? Cultural type? etc. What are YOU looking for from a course? As I say if it is just a piece of paper to wave at somebody then these are simple (I can even provide an address in India which qualifies you to work as a brain surgeon with no study at all!). If you genuinely want to 'learn' - a disgusting word for many people, then do some research and check out the bona-fides of those offering services.

12

Ditte, you've hit the nail on the head - I wouldn't consider doing anything other than a french masters given your objective ;-)

Brian, you're right too in the recognition stuff but then again se faire pistonner is against most EU rules and regulations but that's how france works. It's got to be a french HR degree/masters to stand a chance of getting an interview, let alone a job in French human ressources (let alone a job - apart from more international ones, Ditte ;-)

13

I have a couple of minutes spare so looked through the ratings and the University of Leicester in the UK offers the top ranking distance learning HR masters in Europe. The Bordeaux University School of Management (IAE - Institut d'administration des entreprises) is the best outside of Paris but it is an on campus study. Most of the masters available as distance learning are with private institutions and are VERY expensive.

Do not worry about French only qualifications, they now have to accept all other EU qualifications although they do a 'dance' to try to avoid it. Unfortunately the Council of Europe has slapped their hands for behaving like impetuous school children so even if they ask for some kind of attestation to prove your bachelor degree is a license here they must accept it. There are now so many French studying abroad they will have to shut up anyway in the near future or have bigger trouble with their own people.

Back to the car, off, off and away!

14

Hej Annette

Sjovt med en anden dansker.

Og ja - en dansk uddannelse, særligt sådan en som min i kommunikation(!) - hjælper ikke meget i Frankrig. Ha. Så nu må der arbejdes på at få noget fransk papir på mine kundskaber.

Har du taget uddannelse her i landet (Frankrig)?

Ditte

15

Hi all and thank you for your replies.

Let me elaborate a bit on my thoughts.

What I have now is a bachelor ("license" in French) from the Copenhagen Business School (which is a University despite of its name) in Business Economy and Organizational Communication.

What I would like is to build a Human Resources / Ressource Humaines master on top of it.

I do this first and foremost with the goal of finding a job here in France. Because of the subject matter and the need to know about French rules and regulations in the work-field, I believe a French master would be better (international rating or not). Would you not agree with me on that, or am I mistaken here?

Since I live in the most south-eastern corner of Landes (40) I have quite a bit of travel to go to the nearest universities (Bordeaux 2½ hour, Pau 1½ hour, Toulouse, 3½ hour) which is why I would look into either online studies (though honestly I would prefer being able to attend classes, but tant pis) or the possibility to study "at a distance", meaning maybe going to semester start and end, but not every week.

16

Hi, My husband did a masters with Loughborough University in the uk "au distance" and it has stood him in good stead here in france. i suppose it depends on what you are studying. For him is was on renewable energies ( i can't remember the exact name of course.)

17

With trepidation. The international rating of French master degrees is very poor. If you wish to use it in any other country then think about it. Note very seriously that an increasing number of French students are leaving France to do various masters degrees. If you are seriously thinking about distance learning then you can do them in other countries as well, but then choosing is not the easiest thing to do anyway. It also depends on your discipline, I am a social scientist so have no idea about natural sciences generally but read reviews often and see that the vast majority of business studies variants everywhere are really substandard and probably only the top 50 or 60 universities worldwide offer quality ones. As Andrew says, if it is a tinpot affair...

18

Yes Andrew - I know - it has to be French ... otherwise - forget about getting a job afterwords (is my thinking).

So since I have my bachelors degree ('licence' in French) from abroad, I would like to take a master here in France, from a French uni. And this is then, when I start searching, where all these offers for taking "Masters á distance" also pops up ... but as you write - it is all about size and reputability of the places. Have to research more ...

19

It all depends on which university. If it's a tinpot affaire trying to flog masters à distance then it probably isn't going to be worth the paper it's written on here in France. I'm sure you're aware how difficult it is to getting people to look at anything that's non-French standard...! I did a Maîtrise here in France and having that bit of paper has helped enormously when recruters start struggling with foreign degree and other certificates. At the end of the day, is it going to do what you want it to do/is it worth it? Bonne chance ;-)