Hi everyone, thanks to you now progressing to house hunting. Question on energy use costs, because I am baffled. I know this topic has come up before but 2025/6 advice appreciated. We have found a perfectly restored small farmhouse (150SqM 2 bedrooms but fine for us because lots of land for our horses) with oil fired radiators (not all rooms) and a wood burner in the Loire region. E rating because it’s an old stone farmhouse. Stunned to see estimated energy costs at 6-8k euros a year! I know there has been a lot of debate on this but these costs are not only astronomical but prohibitive for us.
Can anyone enlighten me on real costs and the significance of what’s stated in the blurb? And the officialdom rhetoric recently around stone houses, was that resolved? Do the French want to pull down all their old heritage houses and replace them with Maisons du Miliband
Is this from the DPE? If so, it’s based on a model which may or may not be accurate as the actual usage woul depend on your lifestyle. The best way to find out would be to ask the owner for sight of their bills.
A full 1,000 KG cistern of gas lasts us around 18 months. That’s 7 radiators on 3 levels, but we only have the CH on 08:00 - 22:00 at 18°C. That’s around €2,300 to fill down here in 47.
Average electricity bill is €1,200 a year and we buy around 4 stere of firewood a year which I mix with wood from dead trees on our property.
Thanks to you and John. You are right, I will look at the bills (silly me, should have thought of that). But does anyone know about this stone wall legislation? Thanks!
Ps it should have been Milliband not Miliband of course
Never believe what you read about properties for sale. Speak to the vendors where possible and ask them what they spend per year. When I sold my house, no energy ratings were given because it was middle of summer but the buyers were not stupid and I told them what the costs were on their second visit - I sold it in three days of the Notaires putting it up for sale which is more common in Brittany than using estate agents.
I’ve noticed these estimated energy costs in estate agents’ windows in Strasbourg and they’re bonkers.
We have oil-fired radiators. Ok - we’re in a flat so easier to heat. But the building is old and the flat is about 135 m2 and we use roughly 1500 litres of oil per year. This year (I just ordered oil a couple of weeks ago) it cost around €1.5 k.
If you Google “fioul market” and enter your post code you can track domestic oil (fioul) prices.
We live in an old stone mansion. 60cm thick walls. Put in insulation under floors and in the attic. Double glazed windows. We use roughly 2500ltr oil € 2800 and have a high electric bill bc. Pool 1700€.
Woodburner Oak& Chestnut delivered is approx. 300 € per year.
Husband hates the cold - so average temperature in the house / winter 21C
Thanks Bettina. Your husband better than me, I’m thin and old and feel the cold (sounds like a rap song) need at least 26 degrees. Plus we’re coming from Andalucia and used to 40-42 for 4-5 months a year!
Yes very high, unless single glazed windows and no loft or any insulation.
Our house is ± the same size, all walls are +/- 70cm thick most of the inside of the walls are bare the outside is rendered. One wall is 12 hole brick that has now been insulated with 4-5 inches as well as all the ground floor ceilings I lowered the kitchen ceiling 28m2 and the hall ceiling 10m2 and insulated 12-14 inches and put as much fire proof insulation as I could manage up the chimney. I haven’t got round to doing much on the 1st floor but I have insulated the part of the attic that wasn’t.
6 radiators on the ground floor 5 on the 1st. Old 1987 oil burner before installing insulation oil ± 2000-2500l p/y +10-15 odd stère of oak hornbeam beech.
Since finishing installing the insulation on the ground floor last summer used just a bit less than 1000l and ± 10-12 stère
I work from home and Mrs W retired likes it toasty to toasty when I come down stairs from my office I take a layer of clothes off so basically in a T shirt in Winter.
One thing to consider is changing the boiler if old and non condensing. I’ve recently bought a second hand Weismann for 600€ which should pay for itself in a year and a half, it’s also compatible for new bio fuel.
Thanks Wozza, I will investigate. I know those boilers, have a lot of friends in Denmark who have them. They are expensive but also have been told they work really well (you got a good price I think). Add value to houses too. Good investment.
One of the best easy to maintain and parts readily available. Look on LBC there are a few and more coming on line as people are installing heat pumps, and here in Burgundy (the Morvan) regretting it even with the government paying for most of the installation.
The DPE figures)ratings - have an energy per M2 figure to heat the place as well as the Class.
Energy use in the calculations is literally xm2 habitable space multiplied by the figure in the DPE multiplied by cost per kwH. It assumes you heat the entire space to whatever the notional figure is. But right or wrong that’s how it calculated - using standard tariff electricity prices as well to standardise it I recall
Thank you. Despite having had a successful career as a VP for many global corporations, I failed maths, physics and chemistry O levels therefore I cannot interpret your helpful email so, put simply for dumbos like me, you have a 150 square meter house in the Loire with 20cm stone walls and no insulation and a few radiators plus one stove…??? I’m just kidding, on the latter part anyway!
Wow I can understand the 6-8K€, though probably more like 4-6k€ , just under 8” stone walls. Best budget for exterior wall insulation, double or triple glazed windows a the loft/attic too. How old is the house I’ve never come across a stoen built with 20cm / 8” walls.
Sorry Wozza got it wrong walls are probably 50cm in the house we want in France but need to check. But even with that, cannot understand the energy prices in France. Here in Cordoba, we have 40-60cm stone walls, same size house, similar Ceiling height, we pay 1200 a year for electricity (fan ac 1 room only) and 300 for logs. Naturally it’s warmer here and we have old house designed to retain and offset heat. I read that energy costs in Spain and France are similar so I just can’t understand the huge difference. If it was 1.000 euros a year difference I could get it but 3 or 4K does not make sense unless I am not up to date on French prices?
Which begs another question: what is the most efficient way to heat an old house in France?
Sorry, final thing. If I really have to pay 4K a year to heat a 150 square meter 2 bedroom stone house in the Loire per annum, then all bets are off. We will stay in Spain. So your advice critical! Thanks!
Thermal calculations can be complex if not having the spec’s aka building materials, geo localisations N.E.S.W facing to apply a weather coefficient etc, local climate, N° of windows / exterior doors and there geo position then floor space 150m² & volume, hifgt of ceilings etc & take into account exterior walls a interior walls thermal mass I could go on…
Best look at the KW output of the boiler & this should give you a ball park figure & add 5-8kw for the wood²burner
so, put simply for dumbos like me, you have a 150 square meter house in the Loire with 20cm stone walls and no insulation and a few radiators plus one stove…??? I’m just kidding, on the latter part anyway!