EU Citizen Or Still Uk Citizen which one am I

You did indeed say that, but failed to provide any evidence of your assertion or indeed to explain what you meant.

But on a broader point, I think this is where the Left is failing: failing citizens, the exchange of ideas, political debate.

I remember my grandfather talking about the Fabian Society. In those days, there was discussion in Labour, because socialists were interested in principles and morality, rather than expediency and power.

It allowed there to be a broad consensus between Left and Right about the destination, and the differences were how we should get there.

You will hate to hear it, but it remains true. (And note I’m prepared to explain what I believe to be true: I’m not just accusing you of insincerity.) The Left, in a desire to be elected, has chased so many different groups of voters that it has created an indefensible hotchpotch of inconsistency, while at the same time accusing anyone it disagrees with of any of a variety of -isms (in Orwellian terms, thoughtcrimes).

And that is why there is so much protest and anger nowadays but so little debate.

I quite explicitly offered you the option to discuss it or not and you didn’t respond to the offer. The obvious inference was that it was accurate so you chose to ignore it.

Sorry, I thought you were doing it already!

I’m happy to discuss anything.

And I think you - and you’re not alone here, of course - are almost always sincere in what you say.

Hello Everyone…

Please can we all call a halt at whatever point we are at now/or trying to make…
and move on to something else entirely. :+1: :crossed_fingers:

(I’ve just got back from the hairdresser and I’m feeling a little light-headed)

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I hesitate to get involved in this but you can’t really use old definitions of left or right any more.

On another board the other day I saw someone refer to the Fabians as extreme leftists- they clearly had no idea of the history of socialist (there’s another one) movements in Britain.

Politics has now become extremely poisonous (better word than ā€˜toxic’) and the press and other media have altered the meaning of such words as well as the ranters on social media.

I’m so sick of it all today (riots in NI) turned off R4 and replaced with France Culture. There was a discussion on Roland Barthes…….(sigh of relief)

Soon R4 LW will be turned off which will limit my exposure.

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The current government is not Left Wing. They are at best Centrist and I would argue all parties pander to populism. They want to be elected and stay in power, why wouldn’t they?

Farage suddenly u- turned on supporting the US in Iran, U-turned on scapping 2 child benefit cap, lots more changes on economic policies.
Tories changed net zero policy, Badenoch keeps repositioning from right of centre to more right depending on the audience.
Every party, Left or Right is chasing voters.

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I think that’s correct. The socialists of my father’s generation would not recognise today’s left. They might recognise the Tories under Badenoch, now careerist extremists like Jenrick and Braverman have gone; I’m not sure.

I used to listen to James O’Brien on LBC, but he’s been replaced by a soundalike caricature. I like Sheila Fogerty: she always seems to speak the voice of reason, but she’s rare.

I like France Culture, though it’s a challenge to my French. But the relief!!