Fairynuff
Genuinely - I was actually hoping you were going to prove me wrong.
Here here. I know of several cases here where people have been charged severe penalties because the car was not in showroom condition when returned. Bit like the difference between owning or renting a house. I can live my lifestyle in my car but couldn’t in a Lease car. At the moment I am firmly in the wait camp for an EV. To me a Hybrid is just a gimmick unless you are a low mileage driver. The latest Ferrari hybrid has a range of just 25miles on electric with a substantial loss in performance. To aid the planet we have downsized and I now eat alot less baked beans to help with the methane problem.
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A worked example:
BMW 118i, £30k new (actually just under by £95) Sorry I’m using BMW again but their website and configurator makes it easy to look at finance. I can’t imagine other manufacturers are massively different overall.
BMW contract hire 48 months - £4485.75 and £338.40 a month with an 8000 mile a year agreement.
Total cost: £20390.55
Or: PCP plan - same mileage, same deposit, lower monthly payment of £316 and you can hand the keys back at the end of 4 years just like you can with the lease deal but pay a grand less overall.
If you go for HP the total cost is £30981 - after which, of course you own the car, residual value should be about 56% for this model after 4 years or 16k - so the total cost to the customer, accounting for depreciation - £14k, significantly less than either the PCP or contract hire.
I’m not sure what you get for the extra grand that it costs to lease over PCP - from the promotion video it did not seem that servicing was included.
Obviously to go for HP you need to be able to afford a higher monthly payment but it is much better value overall. Outright purchase is even better but you need deep pockets for that.
Not looked into this at all, never seen a good shared ownership plan or an equity release the rich have to make their money from the poor somehow.
Perhaps leasing made sense if it was the early Nissan Leaf battery?
20% and must phone.
We’ve done Newhaven for decades through thick and thin. Recently we make an overnight stop at Rouen. As better options for overnights etc round there than too near the boat.
The balance of our journey is longer than yours within France though.
Indeed.
The “advantage” of personal contract plans which have become very popular recently is the low monthly figure - but that hides quite a hike in overall cost.
I went for a test drive in an A5 - nice car and, at the time, if the sportback had the TFSi engine for the European market rather than the TDi I might well have bought one but while waiting I could hear the sales staff with other customers - it was all about “how much can you afford per month” - doubtless they will take whatever people say and show them they can “afford” a much nicer car on PCP.
Ermm those are UK prices! What is French price? And french leasing costs?
We toyed with leasing just the battery, but VW don’t do this any more…so just bought it. With interest rates being what they are that worked out the most sensible, especially once factored in the €6k eco bonus and €5k prime à la conversion.
And after 4 hours with new (old) car very happy. Came back down motorway, drive of 150km. Started with range of 345km and ended with range of 200km, having gained a couple of km on the way. So being able to go 150km from home will deal with 95% of our journeys!
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They will doubtless be in the same order. The problem is that you don’t appear to be able to get a finance quote online on the French BMW site - you can configure options etc but then you don’t have the “buy online” link as you do in the UK - the first thing that does is give you detailed finance quotes, hence it is easy to compare schemes.
Oh, I part take that back - anyway the price is easy €30k (less one cent) for the 118i.
And there is some finance info… - … give me a minute.
OK so the lease deal Net price (not that it matters) is €28420.99, 1st payment €4,263.15 and 35 monthly payments of €371.71 for a total of €17,254
Now, I had to tweak the UK quote a bit - the maximum agreement offered on the French site is 36 months, but matching it up seems to give £3643 deposit and 35 instalments of £403.09 for a total of (roll drums) £17751.15
Given the current £ vs € rate it looks like the lease deal is about 20% cheaper in France - probably because of stronger residuals in the French market compared with the UK (to be fair I used US figures above for depreciation because I could not find detailed ones for the UK)
I can’t really compare the value of HP vs lease without knowing the residual in the French market but there is a PCP option (LOA = location avec option d’achat).
Here, the net price is €28,420.99, same as above, again matching the other parameters we have deposit of €4,263.15 and35x€387.15 for a total of €17814.45 - so, this time PCP is slightly more expensive despite being essentially the same deal as lease if you just hand your keys back at the endof the three years.
In the UK the PCP repayments for 36 months are £390.17 so, again, lower than lease and the total becomes £17298.95
So there is similar situation as in the UK except that lease has a slight lead in the French market - which is interesting as there really is no difference between the two schemes conceptually if you do not take the option to purchase.
Having no idea what the residual would be I can’t calculate a net price to the consumer for HP for comparison.
What we can say is that if you do take the option to purchase, then the total price that you pay becomes €34064.45 compared with £31316.4 in the UK (= €36640.18), if you do HP in France over 36 months (which can’t *quite* be comparable because there still seems to be a small option to purchase price) then the total payable is €32577.39 - so a couple of k cheaper than PCP/Lease.
In summary - in the UK, without taking the option to purchase PCP and Lease are both more expensive than HP or outright purchase and for some inexplicble reason despite being essentially the same deal PCP is £1k cheaper than leasing.
In France they are very close with PCP taking the edge and both cheaper than the UK presumably because of better residuals. What I can’t say is whether they represent good value over HP or PCP+option taken.
In fact PCP+option not taken and lease are likely to be pitched similarly as it will be similar customers looking at those two ways of paying.
In the same vein PCP+option taken will be pitched at a similar price, again similar customers will be looking at the two schemes.Given that HP is cheaper overall I wonder why anyone opts for PCP knowing that they will have to cough up a considerable sum to own the car. In fact I suspect most will just hand the keys back but, perhaps, there is a group of people who feel that the higher monthly HP repayments are out of reach - or at least they could not manage them every month but think they *could* manage to save for the lump sum with luck and want the flexibility. Sadly they will pay for it.
So - hope that has shed some light on the complex issue of how to pay for a car and which is the best way overall.
Of course this thread was about EVs and we have used petrol engined cars to compare - the basics of finance are the same though we have *no* idea what EV residuals will be as the market develops. Some seem to hold their value well - the Taycan has a residual of 77% after 3 years/36,000 miles for instance but the i4 is utterly unknown.
What I think we can say is that lease/PCP with the option not taken are expensive ways to buy cars overall but offer the advantage of low monthly payments.
HP or PCP with the option taken are the cheaper ways to buy a car overall but have either high monthly repayments or the need to cough up a large sum at the end of the finance deal. HP is the cheaper overall and - just considering the car purchase buying outright cheaper still but it depends on the opportunity cost of not having that chunk of money. That is way too variable to discuss.
PCP in some ways is a bit weird because it is really two products in one - lease-like if you don’t take the option, HP-like if you do.
Edit: Final thoughts. I don’t see lease as a viable option under any circumstances. It costs more in the UK than PCP but even in France where it is slightly cheaper it is only pennies and you never have the option to purchase. Given the similar prices wouldn’t you want to keep your options open? You might be convinced now you want to hand it back at the end of 3 or 4 years but what happens if circumstances change?
I can see why you might choose PCP and take up the purchase option over HP but it’s a niche group of customers and they are paying a premium overall for lower commitments but flexibility at the end of the loan. If you need finance and are confident of being able to meet the higher repayments through to the endof the loan HP will reward you with a notably lower overall outlay.
I hope that you have found these ramblings illustrative.
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I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a Tesla round here! Peugeot and Renault Zoe yes, Tesla no….
Note - post above expanded.
TL; DR - it’s complicated.
They are starting to be as common as muck in the UK.
Just seen a transporter load on the A10.
They have sold millions so the number with problems is very low.
Very informative! I’ve / we’ve only ever bought cars cash can’t imagine forking out that much debt on a car!!!
you possibly have and not noticed ! Quite a few around Bergerac / Perigueux.
1.486 million and they are not the most reliable car on the road 
quality on them has been rightly slated.
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Wonder if the new Gigafactory being built for Tesla near Schoenefeld, Berlin will up the quality level as it’s in Germany?
Gut feeling is yes!