Floor Tiles

(John Alcock) #1

We are renovating our bathroom, totally gutted, the floor is a very dense type of grey/green chip board quite old at least 15 years but level and firm over the old floor boards having put new floor tiles on this board using flexible adhesive supplied with the tiles we have found that after 4 days i can lift them very easily the adhesive has stuck to the tile but not the board any suggestions what have i done wrong or is it the board, is it worth taking up this board and fitting tile backer board do they sell it here.

(John Withall) #2

John, Brian is incorrect, P5 chipboard is as waterproof/nonabsorbent as ceramic tiles or Wedi board, with the correct adhesive you can tile on tile and that's without abrading the surface.

Latex/SBR as a primer after cleaning/degreasing the surface.

Andy it's maybe time consuming but angle grinding also removes the old adhesive and provides a key but the correct adhesive will allow tile on tile without a key at all.

(Andy Hyde) #3

Panneau d’agencement/Wedi board are two terms to look for. Hardie products are also sold in France I believe. Things are only as good as the substrate you put them on. The substrate you have provided not enough of a key for the tile adhesive. Unfortunately, tile backer board does what it says, provides the correct surface for tile placement on surfaces that will not accept tile adhesive such as wood. Make sure it is the correct board for the job and that you use enough nails/screws. Some boards have dots marked on them that show where you should be nailing/screwing.
It is possible to use a flexible epoxy as a basis for an epoxy floor finish or a polymer enhanced cementitious overlay (beton cire, sorry no accents on my keypad!)with plenty of decorative and color options. Also no grout to get dirty! Still need backer board though.
It would be hard to re-use your tile correctly as removing the adhesive from them and leaving a keyed surface for re-adhering is not possible.
Others may disagree but I have layed tile over wood floors (used backer board) and currently am a contractor doing decorative concrete overlay.

(John Alcock) #4

We seem to have got to the bottom of this problem according to a builder friend no not Bob its Brian not got the same ring to it has it, Brian the builder nah, anyway i digress its external chipboard and tiles wont stick as it doesn't absorb water, covered the floor with a thin sheet of ply as Simon suggested screwed every 6 inches so spent the day screwing for England, tiles laid no problem.I can understand what the last owner did now, as its a bathroom with water on the floor he used external chipboard and covered it with lino.

Next problem has anyone found a low height shower cubicle as this is in the loft space conversion we are restricted in height and need a shower cubicle of no more than 180cm in height most we have seen here are over 190 cm.I have sourced one in the UK but the cost of transport is as much again

(Brian Milne) #5

I gather it thus goes on the membrane which is above the wood... I'm just repeating it. I have tiled umpteen floors since I bought my first house in 1968 and never heard of that, but then laying a thin screed on a membrane (our neighbour has anti-termite membranes on his whole ground floor) is considered normal hereabouts. I don't really know, but is there a significant difference? We have at least 15 months to find out before we do our bathroom floor.

(Dave Thornley) #6

What does the adhesive stick to?

(Brian Milne) #7

No, not just laid on, but using the adhesive and grout as normal. I thought it strange too. However, the man is very good at what he does, we had him reco'd by people we know and both houses are brilliantly worked on. He is also cheaper than other people and totally punctual, working to the time he estimates and taking off days' payment if he finishes quicker. So we trust him...

(Dave Thornley) #8

Tiles on a membrane sounds very odd to me. Tiles need to affix to a surface not just lie there due to gravity?

(Brian Milne) #9

John, try a membrane like this one: Frein vapeur PARATECH, régulateur de vapeur sd 13m, film cellulosique sous-dalle soudable à chaud. Take a look at http://www.monisolationecologique.com/produit/4119-frein-vapeur-paratech-regulateur-de-vapeur-sd-13m-film-cellulosique-sous-dalle-soudable-a-chaud

It is €8.88 the square metre. I am using Fermacell flooring for a room I am converting (at last) and have a a 'green artisan' and his very green Swiss German architect wife advising (they are doing work on entirely other parts of the house actually, so nothing in it for them). Anyway, the man, Jean, told me that if I did not want to do the expensive floor panelling that I could lay tiles on the membrane on the condition that it is put down absolutely smoothly and fixed properly. Because it is a damp membrane he said that PVA is out of the question (we might as well use plastic sheets if we did) but using a staple gun and getting it taut will. The weight of the tile adhesive (he reco'd Fermacell adhesive which is dampness tolerant) and the tiles will keep it in place.

I am doing the panels anyway, but that would be the other possibility but a few hundred Euros it sounds like you do not want to spend, the stuff for bathrooms being an arm and a leg (next year we will go there :-( ). Anyway, have a look and putting your budgetary constraints in mind, look at it in terms of not spending something on failing and paying all over again which is where I was heading without the advice.

(Dave Thornley) #10

Perfectly safe if you use standard procedures ie face mask. The outer skin on a sheet of chipboard is no harder than any of the rest of it. Chipboard does not have a grain.

(John Alcock) #11

PCI Pericol Plus a cement base powder

(Tony Fisher) #12

What is the name of the Flexible Adhesive that you are using?

(John Alcock) #13

Well guys i have taken all on board it looks like a sheet of ply and a box of new tiles thanks for all your suggestion

(John Withall) #14

Yes another good reason not to sand it's surface Simon and doing so will loose some of the strong compressed outer leaving the wood grains exposed and subject to further degradation as moisture from the adhesive soaks in.

(John Withall) #15

Hmm that must be why they make it then, primer, no?

(John Withall) #16

Yes about 2-3 years. I thought that to be your daftest suggestion yet. Angle grinding it off is about the quickest way

(Dave Thornley) #17

You might have to soak them for some considerable time.

(Simon Roxburgh) #18

remeber old chipboard and particle board used formaldehyde as its bonding agent.

(Simon Roxburgh) #19

in future John never attempt to remove old tiles as you will start a major task as the tile will either come off with chunks of plaster or will not come off at all only break up into small bits. simplest solution is to use thin marine ply screwed over the old tiles and tile onto the plywood, makes life a lot easier.

(John Alcock) #20

So soaking the tiles in i assume water will help to remove the tile adhesive will try that, beats buying a box of new tiles