France recalls US and Aus ambassadors

I couldn’t agree more.
this was very badly handled, but there were problems with these subs which the French seem to be avoiding.
It reminds me of the AZ vaccine fiasco.

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No doubt there were problems but how many contracts of this nature ever run one hundred per cent on time on spec on budget? The usual approach when problems arise is to decide together how to proceed, you call a meeting and sit round a table. I haven’t seen it suggested that France has refused to participate in meetings or has failed to take whatever action was agreed on. For all its faults, France usually takes care at that level to be seen to meet its obligations. And that as I understand it, is exactly the point France is making.

I think those of us that live in Europe should be concerned that the USA has pivoted away from confronting Russia to going eyeball to eyeball with Chine.
What about NATO.

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No, New Zealand is a nuclear free zone, and US and UK only use nuclear powered submarines


The big strategic battle and God forbid possible war is going to be between the China and the “west” aka democratic countries and the Pacific will be the fulcrum, pivoting on Taiwan. If China follows up its rhetoric with an invasion what then?
If the subs weren’t up to this new emerging world then they can’t be blamed for cancelling them.
However what is inexcusable is the way it has been done, Biden, Morrison and Johnson have caused great insult to France and the French.
The ineptitude of them and their diplomats is breath taking, it is unbelievable that they didn’t realise the damage and destruction of trust that would be caused by their approach.
The Chinese and also the Russians must be quietly smiling as they see three allies descending into such acrimony

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France can do nuclear subs, Australia explicitly wanted diesel, until they suddenly didn’t want diesel anymore.

Good question…why didn’t Aussies ask France to switch to Nuclear ones?

Interesting analysis …

He seems to see “global ambitions” purely in military terms. The only way fulfil global ambitions is becoming a military superpower or cosying up to one. I didn’t realise that was what Global Britain was all about. I naively hoped it might be to do with being a climate leader, or help poorer countries, or simply global trading ambitions. It is rather chilling to realise what Global means.

Yep…correct word is naive

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I think you missed a few off that list !!!

And when offered French nuclear subs, Australia didn’t want the sort that has to be refuelled every 10 years. They suddenly wanted the US sort.

Yes, weapons grade reactors :scream: So to build them you need the capability to produce weapons grade uranium.

All the the others are bit players Anne. The unholy alliance of the three uneasy bedfellows I mention are the most dangerous IMO. Of course things will shift as time goes by but currently they get my vote.

The problem is the bit players as you call them can be the most unstable : N Korea, Iran.
And China does not get a mention…

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List the problems the three you mention have caused since 1945 Anne. I think you’ll find the US has caused more mayhem and death than all of them combined.

Interesting comments by former Australian PM Kevin Rudd:

So what could ensue? First, the EU will make decisions after the Glasgow summit on climate change whether to impose “border adjustment” measures – tariffs – against those countries dragging the chain on their national contributions to greenhouse gas emissions.
That means a tax on Australian exports. And which way will Paris now go on that one?

Second, Australia has been frantically seeking to negotiate a free trade agreement with the EU like Canada’s. What are the prospects now of Paris accepting the demands of Australian farmers to have greater access to the European market given France’s historical support for the common agricultural policy?

Third, what about Australia’s interests in the UN and the G7 where France through the global Francophone community carries enormous influence and can therefore frustrate any future Australian multilateral initiative or Australian candidature.

Beyond all this, the horrifying message for our allies, friends and partners around the world is that our word now counts for nothing; that we shouldn’t be trusted; and that ultimately Australia refuses to move beyond the narrow cocoon of the Anglosphere.

Are you being serious? Iran is a major disruptor and supporter of terrorism in Arabia and the West.
It is developing nuclear weapons as is N.Korea.
China is quietly (or not so now) invading Africa and Asia and building up it’s military. It is bullying countries like Australia. It is a threat to Japan. It has destroyed Tibet as an independent country. It is the most dangerous nation on earth.


But the truth is you could make a far longer list of countries that have been subject to America’s disruption, threats, bullying, etc - not to mention many actual military interventions.

An alien looking down on what has actually happened on Earth since WW2 - and immune to prejudice or propaganda - would have no hesitation naming the US as the most belligerent nation.

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I leave you with your views and I with mine.
No point in discussing.

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