Sorry, just a quickie for a colleague who’s just woken up to the new rule about UK nationals having to enter the UK on UK passports.
My colleague is French and her 13-year-old has a French passport. The child was born in France to a British dad, who is British by birth.
The whole family - French mum, British dad, dual-national older brother (who has both French & UK passports) and this kid hope to
visit the UK together in a car this summer.
Two questions: the child is automatically British, aren’t they?
And if so, they have to enter the UK on a UK passport, right?
There’s no exemption for children under a certain age, is there? (Sorry, that’s a 3rd question).
I think they need to get their skates on and apply for the child’s first UK passport. But just wanted to check with you knowledgeable people first.
Ah same as my son who has two children here by French mother. Firstly as they are only PACs’d he is not automatically viewed as the biological father by the authorities so had to go to the Mairie both times to make an official statement of being the father to both of them. He is now a French /British dual citizen and needs to get both passports to travel outside France although he has a brit passport and the children are both registered as French on their official ID cards from the Mairie but neither have passports yet as have not been anywhere but I don’t think the child you mention is automatically british having been born in France and if they are not married, did the father do a legal attestation to his status with them?They really need to check with the local Mairie or the prefecture to get the real info. Even babies have to have passports these days hence why our two do not have them yet as they are changing all the time and passports are not cheap. I know my son wants his children to have dual citizenship but they are not in a hurry to do it
It seems that the reason for the change (as it used to be possible) was the introduction of ETA - if you are a British National you are not eligible for an ETA but must be able to prove your right to enter the UK when you arrive. Hence the need for a UK passport.
The daughter was born in France to a dad who
is himself British by birth. From what I can gather, that makes her automatically British in the eyes of the UK.
She’s also French (born in France to a French mum) and she has a French passport. Which until now she has always used to enter the UK.
A colleague in exactly the same boat has now confirmed that she definitely needs to get a UK passport in order to enter the UK under the new rules.
I wonder about this. The UK has no central register of people who are “potentially” UK citizens but who have never applied for citizenship or held a UK passport. The UK government will not know about you. I think an ETA could be applied for by such people. No UK passport application required.
I should declare an interest..My wife is in exactly that situation. She will never, ever apply to become a UK citizen. I believe she would be able to simply apply for an ETA as an EU citizen and will get it. She shouldn’t feature on some hypothetical list of people who could be citizens if they turned themselves in - the UK government will have no record of her existence (other than as a purely Luxembourg citizen).
But surely it would be invalid, even if that might not be noticed.
And potentially complicate any future UK passport application.
If she is in the same situation she is already a UK citizen whether she likes it or not. She just hasn’t applied for a passport.
I agree that, in practice, it is not likely to cause problems - but I also think you’d have to be very certain about not wanting to apply for a UK passport.
I agree with others that to be 100% sure she should get a British passport. Carriers woukd be entitled to refuse to let her travel into the UK with only a French passport. Not sure what passenger information is required by ferries or Eurotunnel.
However if the family arrive at passport control as two units (British Dad and brother with British passport. Then French Mum nd French passport holding daughter I very much doubt there would be a e problem.
Another option as George suggests is to get and ETA for her. Strictly not possible but again would anyone join the dots?
And yes she is British, but actually still has to apply for her citizenship
The kids are visiting us in August and are all British with UK passports.
Eldest daughter has a child with a UK passport, Eldest son’s partner is Ecuadorian with a Spanish passport and ETA, youngest daughter has a child with a French passport and an ETA as has the youngest son.
I agree that if the girl were planning to travel on her French passport with her French Mum, there would almost certainly not be a problem.
But she will be travelling in a car with her mum and British dad and Anglo-French brother who does have a British passport.
So this could raise questions about her own citizenship.
Also, she will definitely be applying for a British passport in the future so doesn’t want any problems further down the road.
Her mum has now started the process of getting her first UK passport. Fingers crossed it goes smoothly and quickly.
I don’t think it is correct.
If your grandchildren were born abroad to a parent who is British otherwise than by descent, those children are automatically British.
Under the new rules, they must enter the UK on UK passports.
Whether they will actually encounter problems in practice is another matter. Personally I wouldn’t risk it.
Looks like she’s automatically British (born abroad to a parent who is British otherwise than by descent) so no need to apply for citizenship. Just the first passport. Although this usually takes a bit of time so her parents need to get their skates on.
My Luxembourg wife is relieved to discover that she is not, in fact, automatically a UK citizen, as that status (in her case being born overseas) could only be passed on by a UK father not a UK mother prior to 1983. Her father is from Luxembourg.
Mrs Thatcher personally insisted the law be changed in 1983 to permit those born of British mothers prior to 1983 to acquire citizenship retrospectively, by application only. I’ve had a briet look at the application requirements and she’d have to provide two referees with quite specific qualifying criteria and (even) her mother’s expired UK passport. Her mother died decades ago and it would be impossible to provide that document.
I think she is pretty safe to apply for an ETA on her next UK visit, as a Luxembourg citizen and who is not a dual UK citizen.
It looks really archaic to our eyes today, that only a father, not a mother, could pass on UK citizenship (for those born overseas). One other similar change that Mrs T also introduced was of course independent taxation for married women. It’s hard to believe - looked at in today’s eyes - that prior to 1991 married womens income in the UK was treated as the husband’s income, and he alone was responsible for filing the single return and paying the taxes.
Similarly archaic in my eyes… my son was born in France in the late 90s. His mother is French. At the time we weren’t married, but my name features on his French birth certificate. At the time he wasn’t entitled to British citizenship.
Luckily for him the law was finally changed to allow unmarried parents to pass on their citizenship, and it was applied retrospectively, so he now has dual citizenship. But I remember feeling a bit irked by it originally.
Yes and no Helen, nobody can force you to take up a nationality. Your friend’s daughter has the right to apply for British citizenship but nobody can force her to be British. She can travel as a French national for as long as she likes. It’s only she when decides to become a dual national that the tomfoolery starts.
