French Citizenship Pros and Cons?


(Anne Marie Huet ) #21

Very interesting Andrew, does this mean that as I have been here for 29 years it’s easier for me? Had difficulties getting the correct papers, and admit when I go over the paperwork that it just does not seem worth it . I speak reasonably well. My writing is eeeerrrmmmm not as good as I would like lol. I work in international sales so most of my writing is in English. However I do think that I could pas any tests as I am quite cultivated in the French life, history and music.
Hubby is French, speaks perfect English. We only speak English in the home. I have worked for over 23 years here.
What do you think, you seem to have a good knowledge of this subject thank goodness :sweat_smile:


(Jane Williamson) #22

Hi Andrew, our daughter in Munich is taking dual Uk/German citizenship.
She has a 1st class honours degree in international business and German and has lived in Munich for nineteen years. She is now the MD of an investment subsidiary of a major German company trading internationally and has to take an exam, for which she pays 180 euros, to prove that she can speak German to CEFR level B1 and is capable of livining in Germany .
It makes me want to spit feathers. Bureaucracy gone mad!


(Mandy Davies) #23

Have a look at this thread Brexit and EU citizen rights. It explains that once you have been legally in France for at least 10 years you can not be asked to leave. A link to the law, in French of course, is here
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006070158&idArticle=LEGIARTI000006335180&dateTexte=&categorieLien=cid


(Andrew Hearne) #24

Crazy, Jane, I’d be in the same boat if I hadn’t have done my maîtrise here in France if I only had my honours degree in French and Italian I’d have to sit the test! I hope all goes well for her :wink:


(Anne Marie Huet ) #25

Thanks Mandy
That post is also interesting.
However I am looking for French citizenship made easy lol lol .
I think I am safe here haha. Still married to French man after 35 years. Married in the UK . Had first two boys in the UK, third born in France, however due to the French father after a lot of hassle the first two got their French citizenship at the ages of 27 and 25 respectively. Interesting enough my eldest son did an apprenticeship for the bac professionnel at the gaz de France, he is now employed at the ERDF :blush: all this with a British nationality!!
It’s good that he could do this, although when he applied for a job there after the apprentiship finished, the up above were absolutely amazed that he had managed to get so far not having the French nationality!!
Many thanks for this post.


(Andrew Hearne) #26

Hi Anne Marie, not as far as I’m aware the difference is after 10 years residency - you don’t need to provide a evidence of a clean criminal record in your “mother” country and the treatment time is less.

I agree that for many it isn’t worth it, Mandy has given a link which shows that we can’t be “kicked out” after Brexit and for many that will be enough. My “involvement” in France is perhaps a little different to some - I run bureau de tabac, I’m the gérant and own the company (obviously french) set up to run it, my other half is an associate partner and we have an employee. I have another company that owns the “murs” too. Everything I have is here and I want to have a say in who’s taking the decisions here!

We speak French at home and always have, in fact since I gave up teaching and translating I no longer talk or write much English at all (apart from sfn of course!) If you go down the naturalisation route, or just to improve your French, why not insist that your husband and you speak in French…?!

What do I think… if you don’t specifically want French nationality (and lots of hassle to get it) then don’t bother, you can’t be kicked out! :wink:


(Harry Fawcett) #27

for me ive moved all my assets over here. unless someone pops their cclogs and leaves me something in the UK.

For me there are no negatives. if it was not for getting married and resetting the clock I would be in the process right now.


(Andrew Hearne) #28

There is an easier way once you have lived here for over 25 years, are over 65 and are the parent of a French child. See here


(Anne Marie Huet ) #29

Hi Andrew

Now that is very interesting to read. Seems a lot simpler lol.

To speak French with hubby would be very hard for us both as we have always spoke English, but be reassured I speak French with friends, family etc… also obligatiore with my colleagues. I have to write in French too, it’s just a lack of confidence to take a test lol.

So you run a bureau de tabac? Very very hard work, I have a nephew who also does this, early mornings, late evenings very difficult…

Do you have your English family come over? I do hope so… I have a sister in England, brother in Sweden and a sister in Australia

Lots of French and English cousins, family in law etc… soi get to speak both languages on a regular basis, as mentioned I work in international sales… good fun .

Anne


(Andrew Hearne) #30

Given what you’ve said, Anne, I think the French test would be a doddle for you :wink:

ALmost no visits from English family, they don’t like the idea of being in a “linguistically hostile” environment! We also have very little time and as a family we’re all very independant. I came out to France accept that I “left” so it’s up to me to go back from time to time!

Yes - being a buraliste is akin to slavery :smiley:


(Jane Williamson) #31

Thanks Andrew, it seems that all the good words from her employer mean nothing. The others at her work are totally astonished that she has to take this test.
It is yet another exampke of dumbing down and not acknowledging her history of living in Germany.
Mind you we are thinking of taking French citizenship, but are over 60.
Having seen a post on here that we might then have to pay more tax, we are thinking again.


(Harry Fawcett) #32

my mums the same. Does not like the idea of being in a country with a language she cannot speak.


(Bill Morgan) #33

OK, think I’ve been convinced, no advantage for me at the mo’, (although I have no reason to have to prove my language skills, French, (which I don’t have btw). So, because I don’t want to have to conform to French inheritance laws, (which I said, was my main concern), I will stay Brit for the mo’!


(Véronique Langlands) #34

I did a Goethe Institute course after A levels and before starting university in Germany a zillion years ago and got C1, (at home we spoke French and or English as my mother couldn’t be bothered with speaking German).
It might come in handy!


(Jane Jones) #35

Would taking french nationality automatically mean you can no longer opt for UK law in your will?

At the moment, as a french resident you are subject to french inheritance succession laws unless your will specifically states otherwise. And whatever you do you can’t escape french inheritance tax. Would that change?


(Harry Fawcett) #36

once you opt for it yes i do believe you cannot opt for uk law anymore as you are now a citizen here


(Simon Armstrong) #37

Not so - multi-nationals can choose any of their nationalities for the execution of their will. As France does not require you to revoke your British nationality - that will make you a multi-national. Bit different for the Spanish immigrants -they need to revoke !!

Here’s the actual legislation:

Regulation EU 650 / 2012 (Effective August 2015)

And a more user friendly summary:

How It Affects You

Saved them a while ago :slight_smile:


(Carol Bouvet) #38

In my situation it will be a lot more advantageous to obtain French Citizenship,so I


(Carol Bouvet) #39

The first time I started the ball Rolling for French citizenship I was in similar position to Andrew,helping my French husband to run our business with unsocial hours and two small kids. I just couldn’t find the motivation to carry on,seemed like too much hassle ;If only I’d known then that the hassle and worry would be multiplied by at least twice 15 or so years later;Partly because my personal circumstances have changed, actually making me less eligible than I was then,divorce,employment and,house owning status etc and partly because I think criteria changed slightly in 2015,having to apply to Regional Platforms instead of your local Préfecture ,Language test ;And of course Brexit!
I think the big advantage for me (if I succeed now) is the knowledge that if I need to leave France for more than 2years to care for my mum I can come back here without worrying that I will lose my right of residence. I do believe that if leave for more than 6 months I would even lose the right to reapply for French citizenship in the future,(as parent to French childen/Young adults I would be eligible in 4 years)
I do see my long term future in France while my sons are here,and funnily enough my divorce and Brexit have helped to clarify this for me as although I will never feel totally French I feel as if I have absorbed a fair few of their ideals,and am following the Laeticia Halliday/Laura Smet,David Halliday case with interest as I think its only right that Johnnys biological kids are not cut out of his will completely even if Californian Law states otherwise’’)He was a French(naturalised )icon after all!!
However the paperwork was a big headache and the first part of the French test(audio and comprehension) went far too rapidly for my liking and the fact that I scraped a CI was more luck than judgement as I guessed at least 5 of the answers!


(Fleur Capaldi) #40

Excerpts from https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/social-security/social-welfare-levy/ :

"If you are of retirement age from within the EEA, and in receipt of a S1 health certificate of exemption, the social charges are not applied on any pension income received from outside of France.

This is because your health costs are covered from your home country through the use of the S1 form.

This means that workplace pension income other than the state retirement pension also escapes the charges.

Although your pension will be exempt, all retired persons are liable for the social charges on any rental and investment income they receive.

In addition, even if you do not have an S1, if your net taxable income is below the level that would make you liable for the taxe d’habitation you are exempt from the payment of the social charges on pension income.

This means that retired persons are exempt from the social charges on pension income in 2018 if your taxable income (revenu fiscal de référence) is below €11,018 for a single person and €16,902 for a couple, with further increases for dependants. The reference year for eligibility to this exemption in 2018 is your taxable income for 2016, as notified on your tax notice for 2017.

The basic rule that applies is that you are only liable to pay the charges if you are: (i) resident in France and (ii) affiliated to the system of compulsory health insurance in France.

Accordingly, those who are covered by an ‘S’ form are not liable for the charges.

If you are in receipt of a ‘government service pension’ taxed in the UK you also escape the social charges by virtue of the 2008 Double Taxation Convention between the UK and France, as under the DTC the social charges are considered to be a ‘tax’. The exemption only applies to the government service pension, not other early retirement pensions."

If you worked in France, paid cotisations and qualified for a French pension on retirement, you have to pay CSG on all income.

I don’t think being naturalised or not makes a difference to this.