Are you sure he wasn’t talking about the prélèvement forfaitaire unique (PFU) ? That is 30% and rolls up tax and social charges…
Except by ticking box 2OP you can opt to be taxed at the tax scale rate.
The 30% is the standard investment income charge made up of 17.2% social charges and 12.8% tax. So if your top scale rate of tax is less than 12.8% you should to tick the box. Until now, those with an S1 have paid 12.8% tax and 7.5% social charges if they didn’t tick 2OP.
The change will mean paying 17.2% rather than 7.5% so just under 10% more than previously
There should be no difference in the way the investment income is declared from past years.
If you have been declaring investment income from these sources in previous years, won’t you have been paying a monthly prélèvement to cover your expected tax/social charges for2021? So you should only have the differences in the actual income for the year your knew at the end of the 2021 year and the increased social charge?
Please forgive my slight thread drift…
Certainly worth highlighting the 2OP box on the Declaration forms.
most folk will have it ticked…
and for those who don’t, investigate carefully and consider the financial repercussions of NOT ticking that box…
Pourquoi cocher la case 2OP impôts ?
Il faut donc cocher la case 2OP si l’on est certain de payer moins d’ impôts au barème progressif. Cocher la case 2OP vaut pour l’ensemble des revenus du capital, il n’est pas possible de dissocier le mode d’imposition (flat tax ou barème progressif) en fonction de la nature des revenus.Jun 7, 2021
Could I just clarify something, does this affect everyone resident here with UK rental income or just those who have an S1?
As further clarification, the UK/France Double Taxation Convention, has not changed so there will be no changes for anything within the coverage of the agreement (which includes investment and property income).
This is the French tax guide for the 2021 tax form for 2020 income (the 2022 version will be very similar) and contains all the relevant information on declaration and calculations Brochure Pratique 2021
page 347 onwards contains all the generalised information on declarations and exonerations of foreign investment and property income.
You say rental/investment income will be similar in 2022 (on 2021 income). As that’s the issue we are dancing around. Do you have anything that makes you certain of this, as other texts disagree? I was waiting for the new guidance to be issued before I breather a sigh of relief.
I’m not sure what you think has changed? The Double Taxation Agreement hasn’t be revised.
The only difference I can see is those with an S1 will now pay the full 17.5% CSG rather than 7.5% (as we did prior to the de Ruyter case which decided those with an EU S1 should pay the reduced rate and which allowed us to claim back the extra paid for the previous three years).
The Brochure Practique has the general case for the calculation of foreign property income for all those resident in France and with property elsewhere in the world. There is no specific mention of a UK property (or other) exception, only the generalised exception convention fiscale signée entre la France et le pays d’origine des revenus prévoit cette modalité d’élimination de la double imposition
If you didn’t have an S1 and therefore eligible for the reduced CSG rate then I don’t think there is any change. If you check, you should have paid the higher rate in the past.
Yes, that’s what this thread is discussing. There is some greyness about whether that the exemption will be continued for those protected under article 10 of the withdrawal agreement. We might need another De Ruyter to step forward.
The original poster was discussing that he would now be charged CSG/CRDS post Brexit.
We’ve never paid any social charges on our UK rental income Elsie.
The de Ruyter exemption was always for members of a European Social Security system. I am not aware of any agreement between the UK and France to apply the social charges regulation for British residents after the end of the transition period .
I don’t think there is any greyness and neither do the French government. There is no S1 exception noted in this from Page d'erreur 404 - brexit
- Quelle est la situation du Royaume-Uni au regard des prélèvements sociaux sur les revenus du patrimoine ?
- Depuis le 1er janvier 2021, les résidents britanniques ne bénéficient plus de l’exonération de contribution sociale généralisée (CSG) et de contribution pour le remboursement de la dette sociale (CRDS) assises sur les revenus du patrimoine dans la mesure où le Royaume-Uni n’est plus soumis aux dispositions du règlement européen (CE) n° 883/2004 portant sur la coordination des systèmes de sécurité sociale.
En conséquence, les revenus du patrimoine sont soumis aux prélèvements sociaux au taux global de 17,2 %.
I am expecting I will have to pay CSG/CRDS at the higher rate unless there is a UK-France arrangement or a court decision similar to de Ruyter.
Which box do you declare it in?
The correct ones I hope. 
I’m not an S1 holder if that makes a difference.
Errmmm this tax note produce by Impots.gouv on 14th Feb suggests otherwise
Depuis le 1er janvier 2019, les personnes affiliées à un régime obligatoire de sécurité sociale autre que français au sein d’un pays de l’EEE (Union européenne, Islande, Norvège, Liechtenstein) ou de la Suisse sont exonérées de CSG et de CRDS. Bien que le Royaume-Uni soit sorti de l’Union Européenne le 1er janvier 2021, les résidents britanniques continuent de bénéficier de cette exonération de CSG et CRDS.
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That is for non residents though, it will be a different situation for French people who live in the UK?
It is headed JE SUIS NON-RÉSIDENT, SUIS-JE REDEVABLE DES PRÉLÈVEMENTS SOCIAUX (CSG, CRDS, PRÉLÈVEMENT DE SOLIDARITÉ) ?
Series of very rude words!! In my eagerness I read it as resident!!
So remind me, what is the benefit of an S1? If I’m paying all that lot then surely I don’t need an S1 to be in my local health service as I’m paying full whack anyway?
So I can ask the UK to cancel my S1 as France doesn’t need the money?
And by the way, I want the right to vote then.
Do not confuse social contibutions, with healthcare cotisations.
If you have an S1, presumably you are not paying healthcare cotisations in France because the UK is paying for your health care.
Social contributions do not entitle you to health care, they do not pay for medical care as in hospital treatment, consultations with doctors and specialists. Maybe some of the money goes towards building and equipping hospitals but basically social contributions are not specifically health care related, they are used for a whole range of social initiatives, some more generalised than others. I think I once saw a public services website that sets out exactly how they are spent each year. I seem to recall one purpose is subsidising the low electricity tarif that France offers to those on low incomes. And some goes towards paying off the national debt.
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Thumbs up- this is how I understand it. Not exactly welcome though.