Interesting open letter from doctors in Belgium
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Sounds super bogus to me, Iām afraid. What is the American Institute of Stress? Who are these Belgian doctors?
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A load of crap
@vero The platform (The American Institute of Stress) is just one of many, many places where this open letter is being posted. I received it as email text from a friend who (like me) is very much into complementary therapy and a belief that our focus should be on health and well-being. She asked for my thoughts.
I think it merits reading. It is a very long letter and I thought it would be easier for people to find it on a web page rather than a great long text post here.
I wonder if you have read it vero? If so, you are a very fast reader! It raises a number of very valid issues that merit debate and the doctors who have written this rightly feel that debate is being suppressed. I recommend that people do take the time. You may be surprised at what is being offered in the way of information.
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@Eddie Iād be interested to know why you believe that Eddie. They are, after all, inviting debate.
Where are their names and qualifications?
It does seem to be a genuine letter written in early September. It is along the lines of other opinion pieces Iāve read which are using data to support opposing points, and proposing that the virus should be allowed to let rip.
The are hydroxychloquine supporters too, and as far as I can read the evidence is still inconclusive.
I agree with them that more transparency and perhaps a rethink of strategy might be good as now so much more is known. My difficulty is that they donāt propose any realistic alternativeā¦do we just allow all 85+ year olds to die? Or lock them up so young people can forget any sense of responsibility? They also donāt seem to mention the long term effects of the virus that are starting to emerge - do we really want a new block of chronically sick people.
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Here they are 
I agree with them the censorship around the debate has gone totally over the topā¦
Itās good to see European voices calling for open debateā¦Childrenās Health Defense now have a European chapter and this letter was also a topic of discussion on Thursdayās episode of The Highwire with Del Bigtree of ICANā¦(Informed Consent Action Network)
There is definitely a problem with the politicisation of discussion. Trump mentioning hydroxychloquine was enough for some people to discount it - unsurprisingly as he clearly knows nothing, and is completely barmy - but this was maybe a factor in The Lancet rushing out a study on it, which in due course was itself shown to be misleading.
Itās very understandable - it is only human - for those that have nailed their colours to any particular mast - either of strict lockdown or something else - to now find it hard to take on board different views.
I skimmed the Belgian letter, and will leave it to others more expert than me to analyse it - but I am keeping an open mind, and I do agree that open debate, as depoliticised as possible, is the way forward.
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I have, I am 
I actually think fine, let it rip, but donāt complain afterwards if people you care about die or (and you yourself) need long-term treatment. Same for people who donāt want to be vaccinated, opt out - but then donāt rely on herd immunity because that is hypocritical - just take the consequences. Donāt get a driving licence, walk or crash, whatever. But in that case donāt drive on the same road as I do, donāt have your child in my (theoretical) immunocompromised childās class and keep away from me with your germs because I donāt want to pass them on to my granny.
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I almost hesitate to make the observation in case I jinx things but - Iām tempted to speculate the French rate could be slowing - just slightly (and hospital admissions, while up on 2 months ago, look flat for the last couple of weeks).
Sadly unlikely to allow our planned trip over in a month - Iāve already moved the booked crossing to next year, if the unexpected happens we can always make alternative arrangements.
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Sorry Paul, I should have taken more noticeā¦ is the graph of UK figures or France?
France - as this thread was more about the French situation than the UK one.
UK might be slowing a bit after quite a worrying couple of weeks of accelerating rates but I havenāt been keeping the spreadsheet up to date. Though to be honest Iām not quite so acutely interested in the figures here - I live in a county with low enough incidence that I suspect weāll have national lockdown before local lockdown and I get to go to work anyway, no matter what, so lockdown affects my routine less than most.
The French numbers, however, are something Iām keeping an eye on as they determine whether the UK wants to quarantine returning travellers and that, in turn, controls whether it is practical for me or my family to visit - something I very much want to do, especially as storm Alex has brought a couple of trees down in the garden (thankfully not the 20m high cypress and oaks, just a couple of fruit trees).
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It would appear there has been an issue recording the numbers with a large jump today catching up the missing numbers:
Wonderful, ā¦ Not
17K here yesterday with the positivity rate now at 8%.
How can you believe the numbers anyway?
World beating, my arseā¦