Oh dear! And I’m so sorry things been mad here and still not called you 
. Just about to take the teen to PX so will try to call later.
And if it is any consolation, my dad installed a hugely expensive Japanese style loo which rinsed and dried the bum area. However, after about a week of it being installed my poor mum could no longer operate it and managed to basically spray the entire bathroom with shit. Which proved worse to clear up than my dad taking her there. I know exactly what you are going through. As soon as you think you have found a solution, the situation evolves and you need a new solution.
Have you tried pull on incontinence pants? I would have thought you would be able to get these FOC? My dad had to have an assessment done with the incontinence nurse but they were then delivered weekly as quite expensive in Boots etc.
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Oh dear, I can imagine. 
Can’t see how wet wipes would help, it is the reaching through the legs to the furthest at the back and ‘cleaning’ forward that is the problem, allowing possible infection through the vagina. We chaps don’t do it that way either (well, I don’t 
) but if we did there is something hanging down especially designed to prevent this. 
(I haven’t actually asked God about that, though, if he is there against all my belief, I am sure he/she will say it is deliberate. 
The way things are going I will have the opportunity to find out soon enough 
)
She has had the pads for a long time now, not free but they don’t cost a lot, about a tenner a week from Auchan. They contain everything, but if I get her to the bathroom in time it saves it being plastered all over inside them.
@toryroo Please don’t worry, I know full well how much you have to cope with, and working as well. I recently steered away a woman in the dog world who, after hearing my praise of you and your help in Perigueux, wanted your details to help a friend. This person only contacts me when she wants something, any questions or offers of help from me go unheeded and unanswered and you do not deserve to have to put up with that as well. 
Sorry to barge in with a suggestion - if toilet and shower are near each other. Can you fit a longer showerhose? It wont create a ‘japanese all singing/dancing loo’, but you can gently rinse with warm water from the shower… and wont have to try and get Fran herself into the shower.
Thanks to both of you but the answer is no and twofold. The distance between the 2 is almost 3 metres, but the overall reason is space. The bathroom is tiny 3 metres x 1 metre. The toilet is angled in a far corner only just 20 cms from the bidet. The bidet is 30 cms from the wall that it is not adjacent to. There simply is not enough room for 2 people there to do anything other than the most straightforward manoeuvres.
I steer Fran to the toilet so that her back rests on me and I hold my arms around her holding her arms with my hands. This is because she instinctively grasps hold of anything available (door post, wasbasin etc.) and impedes our progress, then once there I grip her hips and gradualy turn her completely around before lowering her to the seat. Sometimes this involves rocking her a little from side to side because she will not otherwise turn her feet. Afterwards I encourage her to her feet with both arms and lead her to grip the washbasin with both hands before doing whatever is necessary. Christine has her own way but not something I would do, she steps over the bidet and then when Fran is finished she squeezes down the other side to wipe her from behind, but it looks very difficult to me.
I don’t shower her, it is too dangerous, we could so easily both fall and be unable to get help. The 2 ladies that do shower her have great difficulty but are helped by their skill and her willingness to please strangers, something that I am not and don’t benefit from.
She can be very aggressive to me, again, not to strangers, with them she is most compliant.
Could you fit a long spray hose to the bidet? So she stays on the toilet and you can wash her in situ?
Didn’t have time to talk to you this evening about this but I agree with the others, if you can get a shower / bidet hose to the toilet would be much easier. You can spray from the front towards the back to minimise possible infection. Then have some ‘special’ cloths / small towels at hand to dry.
Good thoughts both but, no. The water for the bidet comes from a wide slit in the end of the bowl, nothing to fix anything to. The best method of avoiding this is to get her to the toilet early enough so that she produces nothing till she gets there, then there is very little to do, and all at the back. I have moved the bog rolls out of reach so she can’t be tempted herself.
Apart from anything else there simply isn’t room for me to stand close enough to do the operation.
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That’s the kicker in my experience, as dementia is an evolving disease.
Have you thought of a commode chair? Ok you have to empty the bucket down the toilet, but if she is slow with a tendency to accidents then this might help as could be put by the bed. And flushanle wet wipes are really much more effective based on my experience with babies’ bums.
Not really considered a commode, I hate to keep saying it, but space. I made extra space in the bedroom by replacing the double bed with the medical single one they supplied to us, But the space created was to enable me to safely get her up from the bed, there was only about 12 or 18 inches for me to stand in and, unable to lean backwards to counterbalance her weight, I lifted her vertically using her armpits. And that’s how I dislocated her shoulder. The new space also allowed us to move some shelves which were blocking the window from opening.
Incidentally, Christine told me of a new address she was sent to, an old woman alone but wasn’t told that the only way for her to toilet was a commode, but absolutely no information as to where to empty it. A neghbour realised she was new and directed he to a hole in the ground at the end of the garden. One hopes that it had a fosse below it.
Flushable wet wipes I have only just heard of, from Cat above I think, so I will look out for them. Had plenty of wet wipes before but definitely a nono for the toilet.
I think you also said that you do have a tendency to hang onto things? Ideally a commode should be in a bedroom or bathroom, but it doesn’t have to be. So maybe a big think about where you could make space? Sadly she will get less able to move, and you will very likely be faced with further upheaval in your home. Many people end up with the bed in the living room with all the associated stuff. With FIL we were able to clear out what was the back of the front room to create a pleasant space for him.
A rather belated update and reply to you @JaneJones.
At the moment Fran is able to move (with assistance) to the bathroom through the kitchen, where she lives during the day. I guard the space we created in the bedroom jealously, there is no way I want to sacrifice the comparative ease of getting her into, and out of, bed each day. So an extra encumbrance there will have to wait until she really needs it. She hasn’t had an ‘accident’ since the prescribed laxatives came to an end, and the fact that she eats such a miniscule amount, (some days only one small yoghurt pot sized protein food, or even less) explains the fact that she does not evacuate her bowels every single day. That might change though because, at Patti’s recommendation, I have begun to buy baby foods for her and, although they are larger than the other pots, she loves them and finishes them cleanly. I have tasted them and find no taste whatever, perhaps because they have a complete absence of salt I think.
She has no interest whatsoever in anything around her, not TV, radio, books, conversation. Nothing. So moving her into the living room would be no advantage, in fact I long ago gave up inviting her to sit there after she began to consistantly refuse. Yesterday I even moved her wheelchair into the kitchen veranda where there was beautiful sunshine and the view across the valley. She agreed to it and I settled her there with a glass of water on a small table drawn up so she could reach it. A short time later I checked her and she wanted to be back in the kitchen proper, she had no appreciation for what I consider a lovely place, it is my chosen space, especially in winter, for me to read while having my lunch.
The only other space is the rear veranda, used mainly for storage at the moment, also the main exit from the house to the garden, pond etc., but also in future for any outings she needs to make as I have recently cleared a space allowing access for a wheelchair, avoiding the 3 steps at the front which have been such a danger to both of us. Quite apart from the above restrictions, that space is unheated and isolated from the rest of the house by 2 sets of curtains so that the door can be left open all day for the dog.
I mentioned in another thread (Elizabeth is Missing, in Culture) of the flashes of anger of the elderly with dementia. This was manifested for the first time to an outsider yesterday. The aide that we have been very happy with, Christine, an English woman who goes above and beyond her usual duties, was replaced by Patti for what we hope is temporary. Patti is fine and sypathetic but she is French and there is no language connection between the 2 of them. Thus everything she says is in a very high pitched voice punctuated by frequent giggling, this combined with baby talk, which they all use, is very irritating to me and I know to Fran as well. She was here last week too and, because I was very busy doing things elsewhere in the house and garden did not realise that she had failed to persuade Fran to get into the shower, so gave her a strip wash at the basin instead. Yesterday I was prepared for this so stayed in earshot and then intervened when I heard Patti having difficulties. I did manage to persuade Fran into the shower but it was obvious that she wasn’t happy and showed it as she was brought back into the kitchen by grimacing at me and shaking her tightly clenched fist. Patti saw this and must see it all the time I think so her reaction was to sing song repeatedly ‘pas de colere, pas de colere’. When it was time for her to go she said to Fran, ‘bye Fran, jeudi prochaine, bye bye’. Fran’s reply accompanied by a glare almost of pure hatred, was a hissed through bared teeth ‘Pissoff’. We laughed it off of course, but when she had gone and I mildly admonished Fran for being so unfriendly, we both collapsed in laughter. 
There are good moments, even if prompted by bad ones.
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David I have been following your posts about Fran with admiration for how you cope and care for her. My mother has Alzheimer’s ( diagnosed in 2017 when she was 89) and until she fell and broke her hip in June we managed to care for her in her own home (4 doors down from me) with a combination of afternoon and overnight carers (I did 2 or 3 nights), and Wi-Fi cameras. It is relentlessly hard.
Like Fran , mum ate very little and very slowly. I couldn’t get a prescription for high calorie/ protein drinks for her initially so we substituted ovaltine (with whole milk) for every cup of coffee and could usually get her to eat bread and jam if all else failed . After a week in St Thomas’ London we agreed with the medical team that she would be discharged to a nursing home . It took another 6 weeks to find a place for her !
In that time she has gone down to 45kg (about 15kg less than last December) bmi 17! Is now immobile and incontinent ( wasn’t before).
The home is close to us and the staff seem caring and she is ‘clean’ though she does fight when it comes to personal care and changing clothes. Although part of me thinks the team we had could get her to eat and drink more and have more social interaction with us , I am relieved that I no longer have to make sure carers days off are covered and that I can go away without making any other arrangements. My stress levels are lower.
David you are remarkable and very strong. I know how sad it is not to be recognised by the person you love. You sometimes talk about feeling anger about Fran’s behaviour but all your emotions come from your love for her.
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Kind words Nici, and I thank you. As regards food I am very surprised that she seems to find the baby foods I have bought for her so attractive. Again last night she consumed the one I gave her, spaghetti bolognese (though not as you and I would know it), totally. It is 250 grams and I thought there would be enough left over for another meal. I put it in a cereal bowl and microed it but had to test it myself in case it was too hot, but eugh, the taste was somewhere between absent and horrible, but, presumably like babies, she loves them.
And she does need it, I can’t remember what weight she was when she was in full health and fitness but over the last few months it has descended in fits and starts to remain for the last couple at 32 kgs. No idea what the bmi is but she is 1.7 metres tall.
As regards anger. Hers is usually when I come to take her to bathroom and bed. Sometimes a flat ‘no’ with a fierce expression. She normally gives in after a few minutes of light banter, from me, but occasionally I leave her a bit longer (it is always well before my own bedtime) but on 2 occasions I have been forced by total refusal to leave her in her chair all night. There is no alternative as to force her in any way would break bones, they are so fragile and prominent.
My own anger is triggered, thankfully rarely, by comparatively little things. We, Christine and I, found in her extensive wardrobes a full length cooking apron with a loop to go over the head and 2 long ties for the waist. Ideal for protecting her clothes when she is eating but I didn’t think to secure the long ties. When I came back in she had pulled one forward, piled it into the bowl with the remains of her meal and stirred it with a ball point pen. I saw red and ripped the apron off her before flinging it across the room to the sink, shortly followed by the bowl and spoon. Amazingly, nothing was damaged. After that I have taken to loosely tying the ties right round the back of the wheelchair.
An amusing follow up to this was a few days later when I was urging her to use her thighs to assist her to her feet. She seemed willing, I always hold her hands and count to 3 and she normally forces herself up on 3. This time it didn’t work and I couldn’t understand why, but she was trying to say something. Her lips moved almost noiselessly and I realised finally that she was trying to say ‘ties’. I had forgotten to undo them and she was pinned to the chair. We both collapsed in helpless laughter.
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Not much has changed with Fran, except for one thing, she is again losing weight. Last week, and again today, she is down to 30 kgs.
I watch, when I am around, a programme on the tv in the afternoons called Murder, Mystery and my Family. It is an investigation into past, some over 100 years old, murder cases where the person found guilty was hanged in most cases. Ordinary people now try to find out if their ancestor’s conviction was safe. This week it concerned a woman who died of starvation and neglect and her husband, who lived elsewhere, was convicted with others of her murder.
She weighed 34 kgs.
I mentioned it to Gill, the Aide de Toilette to make sure she reported it where necessary. She was the one who weighed her last week so does know the situation.
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I’ve been wondering how your Fran is doing… fingers crossed she’ll pickup a little weight… 
I was retired early through ill health and as I’m below retirement age there isn’t many benefits I’ve found that could help me from the uk. I’ve found the majority of benefits need you to be resident in the uk. You can’t get PIPs, or DLA now. If you received DLA before Brexit it will continue under another benefit I believe.
I basically only get Industrial Injuries by disease. Its very little indeed but better than nothing. Luckily my husband has a good pension and we comfortably get by.
My consultant in france has sent a letter to my GP that I could benefit from help. However as we were both taxed in the uk I’m not sure if I would be entitled. I find it quite confusing tbh
Your tax may be taken in the UK, but if you complete a tax return here (as I imagine you do if resident) even if no tax to pay then you are in the system and should be entitled to help. There are a number of options for people in need. As David has found the first step is making contact with your assistante sociale who will assess your needs.
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I’m a little confused… are you talking about your French Doctor… and NOT an English GP… ???