I'm a great people watcher probably like a lot of others who use this site and I enjoy watching people and guessing their nationalities. My french lady friend is getting the hang of it now and is quite capable of spotting a brit from a crowd. Brits are easy and dutch too tho' germans are more tricky. Brits ARE different just as the dutch are in their style of clothing or lack of sometimes when it seems a pair of shorts and a tee shirt are enough to protect from the january chill ! Strange that the dutch, by and large enjoy wearing the more 'earth' colours like brown, yellow & orange etc. Has any one else noticed this ? There are other ways to tell the differences between french and brits especially when kids are involved. The behavioural patterns can be quite marked.
Vic - you should see a little red edit button under your posts?
Well spotted Zoe! Funny old place at times innit? ;-)
Why should the people on the tube all speak English instead of their own language? Should my wife use it with one of her family members or I with non-English speaking visitors?
Language intolerance is quite common everywhere, simply because people do not understand. That is to say they do not understand the words, on top of which they do not understand that people use other languages entirely and are simply afraid of 'difference' that comes with language, culture, beliefs and all the rest of what makes people different. On the one hand there is a pretence that the world is very cosmopolitan and on the other many people are ultimately still quite parochial. That is not pointing the finger at you but meant in general.
However, sit down with a phrase book and learn a bit a day or week, listen hard to people and do ask them to speak slower if necessary, but relying on a single language out of its environment can be very risky.
There is not always somebody who speaks a 'little' English at hand as you might find if you are pulled up by gendarmes doing a routine check of cars when they demand particular documents one after the other and then ask some very standard questions about the licence and so on. Worse still if you happen to be at the scene of an emergency/accident where they want eye witness statements and are also under pressure to deal with several people, some of whom are probably very upset and nervous.
Thanks Vic, we don't restrict words or phrases except for the blatantly profane as context changes everything. This should help though. http://www.survivefrance.com/profiles/blogs/argumentum-ad-hominem-sfn-guidelines
but the "fit in, or FO" comment gets a pass?
I wonder sometimes WTF are mere words beinf policed here, when tone, context, and intended meaning can go in all other directions. Telling someone how they should speak is just as bad as bullying.
OK then James Post will be edited. I originally wrote, "what the hell are you on about" but thought that was too strong so changed it. Far be it for me to add fuel to this thread. At least YOU answered my question. Any chance of a SFN guide to words or phrases to be avoided? I would hate to be thought aggressive as well as a bully ;-)
Edit. How does one edit a post? All it will allow me to do is delete.
I've been to those markets, Steve... I've seen how your type dress!!. haha.
'What the **** are you on about' is too aggressive, especially as this thread is quite flammable!
Thanks
Simon, it is really quite strange actually. My OH's first language is Italian although, typically Swiss, she is not monolingual and her French is perfect but for accent. If her brother, sister or another relative visits they speak Italian - of course. I am bilingual English and German, so visitors from that language area and I use that. My OH and I both speak Spanish, so we use that with particular visitors. When out we use English or French as it happens rather than by design.
We have been 'got at' for not using French because people know we can. We have carefully explained why we do not use French with visitors but have a couple of times had the 'but you are in France' line. As often as not, the same people when they get stuck not understanding tourists and other people who cannot communicate properly in French will ask either of us for help if we happen to be around. One particular shop owner has both blasted us for using 'foreign' and complimented on another occasion because it is so helpful having people like us around. Drives us nuts to be stuck between the contradictions but neither of us give two hoots.
Most of the time when we are working in various countries we don't have their languages, do our best to learn at least basic greetings and politenesses within the first couple of days and show willing. So we find it intolerable that people who have lived here 10, 20 or more years who can hardly put a sentence together and only mutter the few most necessary words are as bad by complaining the French do not speak English or whatever. Where people do not do like it but are willing to take the foreigners' money what can be said? It is not a particularly French thing, other countries are as bad and the UK can be terrible without the slightest effort. However, as soon as we find ourselves among people who use local dialect, Occitan or a mixture of the two who had the 'official' language rammed down their throats at school they do not give two hoots about languages. Luckily we live in such a neighbourhood.
Nice one Bruce. You might have lost your "French" but certainly not your humour :-)
Zoe, I really go out of my way not to be the "tourist", although I I spend a higher proportion of my time in the UK I have property in France and I, like the rest here use the local supermarkets etc. My local Carrefour is great, they are nice helpfull people, they know I am English (due to that English sticker on my forehead that only the French can see). Because I am English they attempt to speak to me in English, and you know what, where possible I respond in French. I am in their Country so why shouldnt I speak their language.
I spend quite a bit of time in London and on the Tube (when they are not on strike) there is every language under the sun, my opinion is that when in England they they should at least try the lingo.
The whole point about my post above is that in France, or any country for that matter fit in, don't antagonise just to make a point, very wrong in my opinion.
How did you know that I have sandles, the brown cordrouy shorts are a little worn though now. Please, if anyone knows me and they ever see me in this type of fashion, shoot me, you have my permission. I am more Hawian shorts and shirt :-) Not really!
WTF would he be worried about a phrase that's used frequently here? :-)
Steve, you possibly are the "tourist" type Simon is talking about when he talks about markets.... Not that I've ever seen any of these types. Chinos? Or is it knee high socks, sandals, and brown cordrouy shorts, lol.
You are right... why go out of our way to upset people around us. Besides, if peopel are staring, as I said earlier... it's the ruckus, not the language. If we're intentionally going out of our way to provoke, or intimidate... of course people will stare.
One cannot say on one hand that people stare, and then on the other, state that they now make a point of being heard, loud and proud, just to rile the locals.
Now Simon, this stuff really winds me up. I flit between the UK and France, my French is not very good (at all) but I go out of my way to try my best to communicate in the native tongue, because guess what I AM IN FRANCE. Why should I go to a country and speak a different language to theirs because I know that it makes them feel uncomfortable... Really!!!!!!!!!!
"one of the guys there told my wife to speak in French because she'e in France. I told him a thing or two and we won't be back!" Probably they are glad, but guess what have you noticed what country you are in.
lol
Come on you blokes, kiss and make up, then move on please. There's better things in the world like a cup of coffee...
WTF? Surely promoting the World Taekwondo Federation isn't a crime?
Sorry mate, apologies for any offence caused
perhaps it was the WTF??