Frontalier - does leaving the job mean you lose the right?

Brexit
1

Here’s a scenario for you to chew on.

I know somebody, a British resident in France with CdS who is currently employed in the UK.

There is a possibility that he will take a special leave of absence to take up a one year CDD in France. At the end of the year he will return to his UK job, commuting to the UK from France as he did before.

Note that his contract with the UK employer will not be terminated, but that he will be not be paid by them for the duration of his absence. While working in France he will obviously enter the French social security system etc.

In this scenario, on returning to work in the UK after the one year contract in France, will he be able to revert back to his Frontalier status, in particular, will he be able to get an S1?

It would be interesting to know if there are any official texts on this.

2

Ask the British Government. They will have a great understanding than we do.

3

How does that work?

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4

I suspect that once his S1 is invalidated he will not be able to obtain a new one. But it will be interesting to see what transpires.

There may also be a loyalty issue if the employer in France is aware that “his” employee is simultaneously contracted to another employer. Is the UK employer in the same sector?

5

I read it as ‘a British national, resident in France with CDS’

6

I think it’s not so much that losing the job would lose him the S1, if he is a frontalier, or at least not till it needs renewing again, it’s more that taking employment with a French employer in France would immediately be making France his competent state for social security etc?

Then, as Sandcastle says, might not get the S1 back until there’s another reason to. eg at UK retirement age if resident in France before end of 2020: not sure about retirement S1, if he became resident in France after end of 2020?

7

I don’t think so. Seems he’s currently commuting to the UK :thinking: So, a British resident working in the UK who spends weekends (?) who’s got a CdS. Tricky I would have thought.

Bloody Brexit has caused so much grief for zero return. When will the bastards who pushed this ever get their just desserts? Never I suppose :roll_eyes:

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8

It is a genuine situation under the rules so he isn’t doing anything wrong in the slightest.

I’ve been thinking about it and I think first port of call would be those in the UK who issue the workers S1 and see their take on it.

9

I’m not sure you can be employed and resident in the UK and still have a CdS, can you? Anyway it’s all a mess IMO.

10

Depends how you read his post @John_Scully . Like @toryroo, I read it that he was British and resident in France. There was no mention of his just going back to France for weekends. A while back I knew several people who were working in the UK but spending the correct amount of time in France to be a resident.

I don’t have the expertise, unfortunately, to answer the actual question about losing frontalier status but when my partner had a workers’ S1 it was issued by HMRC, so perhaps they are the people to ask?

11

The special frontalier section of the WA is for people who work in the UK but have their main home in the EU. All EU citizens have the right to do this and it was upheld under the WA. So the OP is totally within his rights to continue the ‘commute’ to the UK. The only tricky thing in his situation is the 1 year full time in France which will break his established rhythm of frontalier and MAY endanger it for the future, in particular his workers S1. If I were him I’d be speaking to the S1 people and the embassy, both in Paris and the French one in London at a minimum before making a decision.

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12

Frankly, I regret commenting on this :roll_eyes: The “friend” is either “a British resident” or not.

13

That is the thing with this status, they have the right to do just that IF their main home is in France. Example, people we knew in the Aude. He flew in Friday night and out Sunday night every week. Wife and kid stayed in France. This was his pattern and under the WA he is considered resident here even though he doesn’t meet the number of days under the frontalier rules.

14

That’s interesting, @toryroo - I didn’t know that! I shall squirrel away the info for future reference :smiley:

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15

If we’d read this as…
… he’s a Portuguese resident in France with CDS…
or… he’s a Finnish resident in France with CDS
or… he’s a British resident in France with CDS

so as far as I can see… he’s resident in France… but not French… OK ???

I’m a British resident in France and glad to be so…

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16

As I understand it CPAM gives you a code according to your route to healthcare. There is a code for S1 holders whose healthcare is reimbursed by another country, and a different code for those employed in France and making contributions. Once he starts work in France his code will change and his S1 will become invalid, and I suppose that in order to change it back he would need a new S1 with the appropriate start date. The question is whether this would be issued. If he has not been paying NICs in the UK for a year, I fear it would be regarded as a new contract because how could it be regarded as continuous employment when he has not been employed continuously, assuming that employment means carrying out working and being paid for it.

17

How does that work with the tax residency rules?

18

There are a few of us frontaliers on here John, it’s a perfectly legitimate situation and I do genuinely live here, but when I’m working the standard frontalier pattern is historically (pre Covid) to commute weekly to and from the UK. You had to be doing close to that otherwise HMRC (who issue workers’ S1’s unlike the DWP who issue retirement S1’s) could refuse you the S1.

19

I’m obviously out of my depth on this one Karen :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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20

It’s a very specialist area!