Germany, on the wrong side of history?.... again

I always find it fascinating how much of that is rooted in the occult practices of Blavatsky much loved by Aleister Crowley, Jack Parsons and L Ron Hubbard. I won’t bore people with in-depth Scientology talk but when you look at everything that Hubbard created, the logos and symbols and catchphrases, it is all very reminiscent of the stuff the Nazis used, and that’s not as most people assume at first glance because he wanted to emulate them somehow but rather because both groups share so much in common in their occult foundations and teachings.

1 Like

Harley Club for people who claim to be the only ones ‘God’ speaks to.

I’m not at all sure this is what Isreal is doing.

Seems the country, and the members of the Jewish religion regard Isreal as their safe place in the world, and given the re-rising of antisemitism throughout the world, they are not wrong.

Having forcibly taken land from the Palestinians and repeatedly required to defend that on many levels, they may now feel that they must once and for all totally eliminate the armed and agressive threat of Hamas first and foremost before continuing or creating any new way forward for both Israelis and Palestinians.

I really don’t think, as visceral as the pain of loss of lives currently feels, that the motive is purely vengeance. Isreal knows the dead are not coming back. But it may quite reasonably feel its entire existence in a hostile Middle East is in jeopardy.

None of this completely exonerates Isreal for the methods and manner they are now using to defeat Hamas. Palestinian civilians are caught in a hellfire and it really makes no sense to me why they are not able to leave Gaza and Isreal all together. If they so choose, which not all will do fearing never being allowed back.

It all started when the Israelites massacred the Canaanites.

“You shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them.”

Go GOD.

Edit: For the avoidance of doubt, I’m being sarcastic. Trouble is, there seems to be a chunk of right wing religious zealots in Israel that believe in this sort of thing.

2 Likes

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to Thatcher starting the Falklands conflict?

Well the Argentinians probably didn’t think they would start a conflict, did they? So on that basis Maggie did :slight_smile:

Women have often been labelled as aggressive if they protest when someone assaults them or steps over a line :slight_smile:

1 Like

You do know that almost nobody living in Germany today was involved or implicated in any way with the actions of their forebears? Are people to carry these burdens for generations, let alone within the same generation, because using the same logic you would condemn all Palestinians for the actions of Hamas?

Just to be clear, I am appalled by the conduct of the Israeli government both before and since the unforgiveable attack by Hamas - more the former than the latter, which has become almost inevitable as a result. It is deeply upsetting and depressing and I agree that Germany (but also UK and, of course, the US) are coming very close to being complicit in what seems about to unfold. Let’s hope that somehow a ceasefire can be negotiated and at least some compassion is allowed to flow - but your opening sentence does not help.

4 Likes

I didn’t read John’s comment as meaning German people living today were guilty of the atrocities of the Nazi party, but rather that they have a particular memory and sensibility of the horror of what their country did under Hitler – and now are perhaps overcompensating for that in their support of Israel.

4 Likes

It is more of an obligation of carrying the memory of guilt. No jewish person will ever let Germany ‘off the hook’ - from childhood onwards
My generation of Germans have been told to never forget - but we also have witnessed Palestinians being persecuted for their beliefs and their land.
Rock and hard place come to mind - being told we have no right to judge, or being anti semites when we point to similarities of history repeating itself.
So yes - overcompensating and trying to be just.

3 Likes

A good point.

It’s true that Thatcher can’t be held directly responsible for the invasion, though surely her failure to reinforce the islands and defend against surprise attack when Nicholas Ridley’s ‘sale and leaseback’ talks stalled must have given the Junta the message the islands were up for disposal. Perhaps also after nothing appeared to be done after the South Georgia incident.

If you feel an apology to her memory is necessary, then I so do, perhaps it’s OTT to lump the Falklands / Malvinas with the other wars, though certainly victory in war saved her premiership, and thus led to crushing of the the miners and leftwing local government, manufacturing decline and monetarism.

The Junta likely expected a ‘fait accompli’ similar to India’s taking of Goa in 1961, conceded by the UN. Just another local power regaining a lost colony. In fact the original plan was called ‘operation Goa’.

However, after South Georgia it rushed its invasion and lost. If it had moved in the southern winter and after proper preparation perhaps a different outcome.

Can the ‘Iron Lady’ be considered aggressive? Perhaps, however she was very pragmatic - for example selling Council housing off at large discounts did prove very popular though leading to the affording housing shortage we have now.

1 Like

I saw this article which I think complements your point. Human rights are out of the window when religion is involved?

I think it’s more subtle than that.

The Gaza hospital which was hit by a rocket (wherever it came from) was a Christian-run hospital. There are plenty of other people of other faiths (including humanism and atheism) doing humanitarian work all over the world. It’s not religion per se that causes the problem. (I’d prefer to use “faith”, because “religion” tends to mean the practices associated with a faith as well as the faith itself.)

However, we can see that in some cases - irrespective of which faith we’re talking about, and this definitely includes atheism - that a mindset evolves where the adherent believes his cause justifies what he wannts to do.

But that can happen whether the belief-system is Christianity, or Buddhism, or Socialism, or atheism. The problem isn’t (necessarily) in the belief-system itself, but in the human heart.

2 Likes

Good point, and I don’t think today’s German generation should bear the burden of their ancestors actions. However it is a subtle balance, to just cast off the past isn’t acceptable either.

My phrasing was clumsy, but my fundamental point was that it is due to Germany’s enduring collective guilt that it is not as vocal as it should be on Isreal’s remarkably similar behaviour.

4 Likes

As I said, Gernans are between a rock and a hard place
The minute a politician, public figure speaks up they are accused of anti semitism.
At the moment emotions are rinning high. Refugees, muslim habitants are protesting that Germany doesn’t do enought for Palestinians in Gaza and the Westbank while jewish Getmans are very worried about their safety in the wake of firebombs at a synagoge.
Fine high wire walking by anyone again and again…

2 Likes

An attempt to increase the Tory voting owner occupier “class”?

As Gandhi said I believe ( although he could have been quoting someone else ) - An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Nevertheless, It’s one of my favourite Warhol’s - saw the complete set at a gallery (name forgotten) on the Kings Rd in late 1972 / early '73. There’s an interesting aesthetic gap between Warhol’s portrait and what is depicted… In other words, the image transcends what it should signify (spontaneous comment - might need further reflection…).

1 Like

What I like about Warhol’s screen prints of Mao is that in most of them he put rather glaring lipstick. A bit fun but I often wondered if Warhol was thinking gay or ‘lipstick on a pig’.

IMG_3313

I digress……

1 Like

Or “sexy Zedong my pinup boy”.

Two aspects :-
i) His facial appearance is very tranquil and harmonious - lots of curves. Of course the serene, beatific image belies the ruthlessness.
ii) Because Warhol used photographic source material, it’s often overlooked that he was a great colourist IMO up there with Matisse at the very least…