Getting a dog

[toryroo]

I always had dogs growing up on the farm, wonderful working sheep dogs, well in the main Rex was a right old bugger and used to try to nip me when I went up to feed them . We also had Lady, the most wonderful Australian Blue Cattle dog. She was the daughter of a champion and we got her as a darling little puppy. She was the house dog, although as is the norm on farms lived outside in a nice kennel and would only come into the laundry if there was a storm as she got so scared . She saved my little sisters life. She was a toddler and had gone out with pop on the farm. We had 10kms of the Lachlan river running through and we were just downstream from the dam wall so the water was fast and very cold. The old land cruiser had broken down and pop was trying yo fix it not realising Katie had wandered off down the banking. Mum was walking down the hill from way above so could see everything but was too far to call or even run. Lady was of course with her and took off at lightening speed and got to Katie with less than a metre to the water and got between them and kept nudging her back up the steep banking until Pop noticed what was going on and grabbed her . The other amazing thing she did, mum and I were alone at the farmhouse, dad and Pop miles away at the shearing shed and some very dodgy guys showed up at the front door. I could tell mum was scared and she shoved me behind her, actually towards the front door and told me to go inside but of course even at maybe 12 I wouldn’t do that. Lady was at the cattle yard, maybe 400m away but she somehow knew and came flying through the gate, got between us and the men and just growled with all her hackles up (cattle dogs have a bit of a reputation and I was always very wary with other peoples but she was the most gentle, wonderful girl), they soon left!!! We couldn’t work out how she knew we needed her from so far. I’d never seen, before or after, her growl and act like that. Mum would put Katie to nap in her pram in the garden and nothing would move her from lying next to her

I’ve sadly married a cat person, his mum is scared if dogs and I think he is too tbh. However I’m really, really wanting a dog and I believe he can be persuaded,. I’d love an Aussie collie or kelpie but I’m not sure that is the best fit for us as they need so much stimulus and exercise. Our 10 year old is also scared of dogs so I’m thinking something smallish (but not silly small) and very cute would be the way to go (see the 3 I loved on the dog photo thread!).

We have a big garden, but I need to finish a bit of fencing to make it 100% secure. I love the idea of a rescue dog but I know they can often have issues and we have things we need them to be OK with:

• cats (we have one who is a scardy cat at the best of times)

• dogs (all our neighbours have them)

• Chickens

• Noise, we are renovating so power tools often on, also the boy plays guitar and electric guitar (I’m currently on the damp terrace as he’s practising)

• Lot’s of busyness, we currently have ds2 and his gf living with us

On the plus side:

• We have a great garden, woods on our back gate, plus a field at the back do I can build some cool fun training / work out things.
• Someone is usually home (as long as hubby also falls in love I think it would be wonderful for his mental health and fibro myalgia pain)
• I need to walk (well we all do)so will be great to go out everyday

So questions!

• Are we better off to keep looking for a rescue or go the puppy route (do I have the time/ energy needed, especially if I end up being the main person?)?
• Can they be trained to poo in one area of the garden for easy clean up? I have a horror of walking in dog poo and don’t want to be carrying a basket of washing to the line and tread in one
• Financial questions:
• Insurance, around 30€ / month from what @JohnBoy said, how much are other things that need doing regularly? And what are they that I may not have thought about?
• Toilette, some of you on the photos thread spoke of costs for that (none of our farm dogs had hairdos so out of my realm!). Can I not wash and clip as needed myself?

Sorry for such a huge post but it is a huge step and I need to be sure it is s good thing for us and our future dog! Any other thoughts, advice and wisdom welcome

[SuePJ]

Some thoughts:

You are going to be the main carer and already leading a full life. You have a husband and child who are wary and so may not step up to the mark (for a while). How much time are you going to be able to spend with your new dog? (For example, we went to Battersea dog’s home and they wouldn’t let us have a dog as we were in full time jobs.)
Whichever route you go: pup or rescue, the early weeks/months are going to be intensive for different reasons. Pups need house training/diverting/entertained/trained not to bite/mouth/steal. Rescue dogs can be wonderful but also come with their history, which you won’t always know about until you are confronted by their behaviour from something that happened in their previous life.
Small dogs may be appealing/cute but can also be yappy and snappy and amazingly high energy. Looking at the pictures on here doesn’t give you the information you need - look at websites that give a description of the nature/personality of the different breeds. For example, we had a wire haired terrier when I was little - he was a one woman dog - adored my mother, so not really a family pet.
There is a reason why Labradors and Golden Retrievers are favourites - they are softies, easy-going, family pets.
Cockapoos, smaller dogs, can be sweeties but the cross-breeding can be erratic.

[toryroo]

Training:

• How much are classes? @Mik_Bennett I saw you’d recently been.
• Are there books I should get? Websites I should look at?
• I can’t stand yappy / barky dogs, is that something that can be trained? I guess an older dog that you know that before is less unknown than s puppy.

Holidays:

• Visiting friends, camping ect I’d want to take doggy with us so that I guess is another thing we need, a dog who can travel! Are most dogs OK in cars?
• I’m not sure about the UK, which we normally do once a year, for 2 weeks. It’s a really long drive from here! Is it expensive / difficult to do all the paperwork? How often do they need to pee / poo?
• If we choose to kennel it (if grandpa @David_Spardo can’t dogsit. ) how much is that?

[toryroo]

Thanks for your reply Sue, some good points.

@SuePJ

How much time are you going to be able to spend with your new dog?

My full time teaching hours are 18, spread out over 5 days so other than Thursday and Friday 1/2 days. Holidays for 2 weeks every 6/7 weeks, weekends.

@SuePJ

Rescue dogs can be wonderful but also come with their history, which you won’t always know about until you are confronted by their behaviour from something that happened in their previous life.

Yeah that worries me, but also weary as I know how full on puppies are

@SuePJ

look at websites that give a description of the nature/personality of the different breeds.

Yes good idea, but happy with a bitza as well so not sure how that translates if they are mixed?

@SuePJ

For example, we had a wire haired terrier when I was little - he was a one woman dog - adored my mother, so not really a family pet.

Yes not ideal, really needs to love everyone!

@SuePJ

There is a reason why Labradors and Golden Retrievers are favourites - they are softies, easy-going, family pets.

Totally, but quite big (thinking if space in our house which isn’t huge for bed etc), and the hair

@SuePJ

Cockapoos, smaller dogs, can be sweeties but the cross-breeding can be erratic.

So a rescue (parents died or something) where you know they are sweeties ideal. Pup perhaps less known.

[SuePJ]

Dogs that yap have been bred to yap - it’s their job. You can train them a bit, but not much. Choose a dog that doesn’t yap, much easier.
Dogs adapt. You become their world and whatever their issues with cars, etc, you will find in time there are solutions: eg if a dog is car sick, don’t feed them before they travel, use adaptil spray in the car, get travel sickness pills from the vet.
We have adopted an Airedale who was obviously a camel in her previous life. She pees and poos once a day, which we find very strange. Dogs tend to take advantage of any pit stops you make. Teach them a word for “pee-pee” and “poo-poo” and in time they will do it when asked.
If you tell your vet that you will want to take your dog with you to the UK, they will make sure you have the necessary passport + vaccinations. Rabies is the key one - important not to miss dates for revaccination. Most other vaccines have some leeway with dates.

[DrMarkH]

A lot of SFer’s will disagree with me, but I’d strongly recommend a puppy rather than a rescue dog, particularly if there’s a child in the household, because a pup can be trained from scratch and they can grow up to together, with the kid learning some responsibility for the dog’s care and well-being . We had Gigi trained by a local dog trainer who came to the house and did a fantastic job, not expensive, but money very well spent. She’s totally obedient (Gigi that is - don’t know about her trainer).

Every week we do a rando with a group of people and several dogs. The dogs that have been raised and trained from puppyhood are never a problem, whereas the rescue dogs are all unpredictable. They are untrained, and at least one has a worrisome background (kitten killer) and two have attacked not just other dogs in the group, but walkers from other groups. Unfortunately their owners are reluctant to recognise that they’re not in control of their own animals, and it’s caused some schism, but we insist on those dogs being kept on the lead at all times.

IMO if you have a youngster, it’s preferable to get a pup that can be trained and the two can grow up together, with the kid learning about the responsibility of looking after the animal.

[ChrisMann]

@DrMarkH

The dogs that have been raised and trained from puppyhood are never a problem, whereas the rescue dogs are all unpredictable.

How about a rescue puppy / young dog?

My brother has two dogs, both of which are Greek mongrels which came from a UK rescue centre that brings dogs over from Crete.

I don’t know how old they were when he got them but they must have been fairly young I think, though not actually newborns.

Both have very good temperaments and are not yappy. They are quite high-energy though needing a couple of walks a day to let off steam. Chasing squirrels is a speciality.

[DrMarkH]

@ChrisMann

My brother has two dogs, both of which are Greek mongrels which came from a UK rescue centre that brings dogs over from Crete.

Why take a chance? The only dog that’s ever bitten me was a very nervous foreign rescue dog that had already known me for a couple of years. Far better to get a pup from a breed whose general qualities and attributes are known, so you can more reliably match them to your needs and situation.

[Ancient_Mariner]

I’m not a dog person. If my wife decided she had to have a dog after many years of marriage without one then I’d put up with it for her sake, possibly even show it affection for her sake, but it would still be an unwelcome intruder into our home and a source of tension.

So judge carefully. If you think your other half can buy into the dog thing then it may be ok. OTOH if he can’t then it will be your dog in many ways, and if it proves challenging then it will be a drag on your relationship.

I say this to be helpful. Only you know what works and what doesn’t, but don’t hope “he’ll come round eventually” if he’s not onboard before you choose together.

[JaneJones]

@ChrisMann

both of which are Greek mongrels

Daughter got a Cretian rescue. Sadly arrived infected with Leptispirosis that cost a lot of money before it had to be put down. Any import must have total health check as too many of them are sadly diseased.

It is so personal getting a dog. Our last was a highly bred australian shepherd that was house trained by his medal winning mother before he arrived (at 8 weeks!). And they are very intelligent so the first 3 years were a lot of work and the next 7 were a delight. Basically you get out of a dog what you put in, and has to be consistent, so I would be very cautious about getting a puppy if I was working.

He also died too young from a very nasty cancer, and reading about it afterwards it seems quite common with larger pure breed dogs. More genetically mixed dogs seem to have fewer health problems, so we decided we would never get another pure breed as it was too traumatic.

And so we got an 18month old mixed breed rescue (photon in dog thread). Who is wonderful but very hard work as hugely reactive with other dogs. He’s been with us 10 months now, and is perfect in the house and great with people, but we have yet to get to be able to walk through the market without him going mental.

Swings and roundabouts with every option so go with your gut. I can’t imagine not having a dog.

[SuePJ]

@JaneJones

I can’t imagine not having a dog.

Agreed. We tried it for 6 weeks - too old, want to travel, don’t want to be tied down - that didn’t last long! Hence a 9 month Airedale.

[JaneJones]

We lasted just over 2 months.

[Gareth]

@toryroo

Toilette, some of you on the photos thread spoke of costs for that (none of our farm dogs had hairdos so out of my realm!). Can I not wash and clip as needed myself?

I can share some details about the cost. We currently pay 65€ each time. Where we used to live it was only 45€ however. This is for a medium sized dog (a Cavapoo but more poo than Cava). He goes every 2 months.

You certainly can - and should - wash them yourself. It’s the hair cut and clipping nails that we really pay for.

A friend’s daughter bought the clippers and everything to start up her own business. It wasn’t very expensive, but I don’t know where you’d go to learn how to do it.

[George1]

I found myself nodding in agreement at each of the very well informed points made by others on this thread.

If you go down the rescue route, the key in my view is a reputable rescue centre that will have taken the time to really understand the needs and characteristics of the dog. Beware any rescue centre that doesn’t insist on seeing ALL the family and how they react with the dog you have in mind. They will immediately spot if someone in the family is neutral or cold and will probably try and dissuade you from that particular choice. Your family have to be totally onboard with the idea of a rescue dog, for their sakes and most importantly for the dog, which may have had a difficult previous home life. The last thing it will need is a home where only some are welcoming. The Brigitte Bardot Foundation immediately spotted that I was very lukewarm, even without me saying anything, about a dog my wife had fallen for. They were very relieved when we later agreed that it wasn’t for us.

I’ve not owned a dog that can be trained to poo in a particular spot in a garden, (we’ve had 8 or 9 rescues) but perhaps others have? Depending on the breed; they may well also moult their hair at certain times of year.

Rescues can also show behaviours that have previously been hidden. The one you fell for on the dog photos has now taken to biting its owner. Our Paco learned to leap to incredible heights in the rescue centre, which didn’t thrill my wife when he regularly jumped on kitchen work surfaces etc.

I would go for a rescue that the centre has a good understanding of its behaviours, (eg no yapping, good with other dogs) that may well be fully house trained (eg previous owners have sadly died). You could also consider fostering, with a view to permanent adoption of things work out, and your family falls in love with the dog.

Finally I would never put a rescue in a kennel (for holidays etc). It might bring back traumatic memories for some.

Good luck!

[SuePJ]

@Gareth

I don’t know where you’d go to learn how to do it.

There are some good videos on YouTube. I found some on Airedale grooming when Vita got too old and frail to be stood on a groomer’s table for hours. I bought the clippers and used to strim off bits of fur when she was lying down - she would look a bit odd for a day or two - one side done, not the other - but it was less stressful for her and she wasn’t about to go to Crufts.

[SuePJ]

@DrMarkH

A lot of SFer’s will disagree with me, but I’d strongly recommend a puppy rather than a rescue dog,

I wouldn’t disagree at all, even though we have had two rescues. But by the time we had them we’d a lot of experience with Airedales and what to expect, having started with two pups (sisters) years before.

[cat]

I’d also say that the ideal compromise is a rescue puppy. Hard to come by these days as (thankfully) there is less and less indiscriminate breeding but well worth it especially for a ‘first’ dog for the family.

We got Shiloh from a breeder . She’s a Braque de Pyrenees but was born the ‘wrong’ colour so not Lof and was likely to be pts so fulfilling my rescue criteria. I knew nothing about the breed but they are not yappy, super easy to train and 100% loyal to their masters. Energetic but sane. Eg she can do a 40k run one day and sleep by the fire the next day.

I would definitely choose one having had one!

My daughters just got a supposedly Border x beauceron x something puppy. The mum was a beauceron x something , maybe a bit of spaniel but we’re not convinced on the dad being a Border Collie. Maybe a little bit!

In any case, Daisy went to see the puppies, saw that the owner had done good puppy care and came home with a lovely medium sized mongrel who fits right in.

Keep looking and I’m sure you’ll find the perfect family dog!

[Susannah]

I truly applaud you for giving this a really good think. Taking on the responsibility of a life is no small thing.

I rather agree with everything others have said but for good measure will add my €2.

My husband comes from a not dog friendly family but I made getting a dog the primary condition of his taking early retirement to UK. He said I would have to carry all the responsibility of care, feeding, walking and the dog must sleep in the kitchen and never upstairs in our large country house. !£&&?! Fat chance!

From a breeder I picked not one but two doodles. This cost double but he didn’t flinch much.

Within a fortnight the girls had mastered pee-only-outside, chewed through the wooden puppy gate and ran freely through the house. A couple of petit point cushions and corner of an Isfahan rug were the only casualties.

Within a month my husband was so smitten the pups were sleeping with us. On the pillows

So, a man with a heart can be trained

The warning I might add, in addition to that offered above regarding not leaving a dog home alone for long periods, is overall the expense.

Good dog food costs much more than many of the basically grain versions available in supermarkets . I get ours online from Albert le Chien, which I recommend, and you might work out the monthly costs by surfing through the site, along with reliable suppliers like Zooplus and Compagnie des Animaux.

Aside from the highly recommended annual vaccinations, there can be unforeseen vet visits that may seem eye wateringly expensive when we are not familiar with human medical expenses. A reliable, and many are not, pet insurance such as Bulle Bleue is another expense to consider and possibly a sinking fund for contingencies.

Toilettage cost depends on furry type as well as location. Ours cost €156 the pair every 2 months. The vet cuts their nails gratis on our monthly visits (another story about Cytpoint). It’s not that I couldn’t force reluctant dogs into the shower, buy a hair clipper and bliw dry them myself, indeed there are locations where you can, but I prefer not to be the hands that bring them things they do not enjoy. Quite enough stress having to periodically hide necessary tablets in lumps of cheese and ensure the pill is not left on the floor.

At the end of the day, I too will never pass another year of my life without the company of at least one doggo. My husband likewise

[Debby_Wade]

We learnt how to hand strip our Airedale, it took forever so was done over several days, poor girl . Couldn’t do it now due to arthritis.

[Mik_Bennett]

@toryroo

How much are classes? @Mik_Bennett I saw you’d recently been.

I pay €10 for a 1.5 hr session once a week.

The school is an hour SW of Toulouse so probably not much help to you. The trainer is a judge at Crufts, exhibits at many dog shows (not my cup of tea) and has a phenomenal understanding of all things canine.

I started going to lessons because I knew nothing about dogs and it has transformed my understanding of them.

All my life I have been terrified of dogs. I have been bitten on eight occasions and even knocked unconscious once. I used to be like @Ancient_Mariner and say “I am not a dog person”

We took in a puppy who came from an unwanted litter of 5 males and one female produced by a working dog at a neighbouring farm. His sister was also adopted but his four brothers were drowned in the local lake.

Like others have suggested, a puppy rescue dog is the best way to go.

My local doctor said many people do not realise how many lives are saved by dogs. Their need for exercise means owners get plenty of exercise too. Our dogs get three walks per day.

Our second dog was inherited when a friend died. He has had no training and the difference between our original dog with training who always walks without a lead and but is controlled all the time, compared to the newly adopted dog who stays mostly on a lead, is remarkable. The new dog is gradually learning from the trained dog.

Today is training day. Not because our dog Riley needs it now but because he absolutely loves it and gets a bit hyper when he knows he is going. It is a social occasion for the dogs who now know each other and get on well together.

Here is a now and then photo of Riley