Would it be fair to say you have an interest in totstravel Wendy?
This is one of the best posts on this thread! Concise, informative, brass tacks, etc. Well done Helen and best of luck to you and your OH :)
I usually don't add to these discussions - but feel i must put in my two cents. I have been renting out vacation properties in the south of France for almost 15 years - and this is the worst year ever. My thoughts as to why? Overwhelming competition - with dozens of sites and AirBNB, anyone can find anything at any price. It only serves to bring down rental rates.
As for owning a gite - my feeling is that your home and business are now one and the same. And the day you no longer want to be in the gite business, you need to sell your home too. I watch friends who do this, and as they try to get out of the rental business, they realize they are stuck. They can't keep a large property empty, and they don't want to sell their home and move. They feel trapped.
We bought a complex of 6 gites and ran it for 7 years under an SARL. Unfortunately whenever we tried to invest cash from OH's other job this was heavily taxed so we found it impossible to improve the place and come October we were left with v little cash and the tax bills to pay. Very disheartening and we were glad to sell even at a loss. We got 10 weeks fully booked and in a good year 13 weeks. We certainly never drew an income from the place - no regrets because our children had a ball and we made many acquaintances. Our clientelle was equally francophone and anglophone.
I now manage a newly restored residence of 8 holiday apartments with many mod cons and it is pretty much fully booked April through September. To note - it is in a prime location on the banks of the Dordogne, we work with a german based tour operator who takes around 100 of our weeks - and more importantly offers their clients heavy discounts for booking 2 weeks out of high season and insists that the owner keeps their rates at rock bottom. The commissions paid to the tour operator are hefty and the owner receives nothing until 60 days after the client has departed - pretty difficult in terms of cash flow particulary in terms of staff salaries.
The residence has increased bookings this year by advertising with Booking.com. We have noticed that even last year people stayed for 2 weeks but this year two week stays are much more scarce so the Saturday changeovers will be much more onerous this year.
On the other hand if the property does not have to be run as an SARL because it does not have to be used as a vehicle to pay social charges/health cover or repay a loan, it can be run under the régime of louer de meublés which is the way our buyers went - though they were constrained by the amount of revenue they could generate (please correct me if I am wrong !).
As an investment I don't think it works - particularly as the current upbeat stock market will provide much healthier returns at present.
A big thank you to everyone, i was not expecting such a large response, everything from gite owners to holiday planning advisers, a very mixed bag of advise for our friends to digest, what a good site Survive France is becoming, it is taking a lot of the risk factor out of moving to and working in france, people are very lucky these days in being able to access all of this knowledge.
We have already tried to talk our friends into waiting a bit longer before they make the move,they are only a few years away from drawing a private pension and i think it would be a good idea to have this back up, in the 12 years that we have lived and worked in france we have seen so many peoples dreams broken by moving here on a tight budget and having to rely to much on earning a income and then having to go back to the UK when it all fails and they run out of money and have to sell their house for peanuts before they can move back.
Try The Nook Barbara
It's a worldwide market, we've have bookings from France, Cyprus, USA, Canada, Portugal, Australia.
I thought we were exploring objectively whether it's a good idea to invest in a gite in France to provide an income. So all experience is useful.
Last year we had 90% occupancy, maybe because brits stayed home more because of the economic state. Maybe as UK economy is doing better confidence is returning, £ buys more Euros so they're travelling more. Long haul is popular, cruising is growing fast.
This year we seem to be a bit down but it's not over til it's over so we'll see but guessing about 10%.
ouch tell me about the OD and the scammers....
This is the last year with them ......I think.
I work with 2 very specialised companies.
But I have studied my market since I have been here...
I thought that I was a candidate for Mr AND Mrs SMITH or Sawdays
but NO. Or Tots and what not ....but I have found my place.
what have you got?
Where are you/
Remember one thing everyone....almost everyone ....everyone takes a
holiday...So the market is there...it is massive.
We have been running 2 gites for 10 years, this year we have seen a big drop in enquiries. For the first time in many years some week I am not even getting an enquiry. I changed from Chez Nous to Owners direct hoping that would make a difference, not at all, all I get is bloomin scams with people sending me emails asking me to open google maps etc. I have had the best response from facebook asking friends to share my page. I am going to have to research my advertising, some of these online holiday companies have just gotten too big.
It is hard work and when people come and enjoy themselves...
Yes that is part of the reward.
Hi Barbara - and thanks for the feedback. I'm not worried about competition, as the number of gites around shows that lots of people can run similar businesses. And, as long as you can hold onto your point of difference, there will always be a reason for people to come to you.
Every year so far, we've seen increasing guest numbers. But you have to work for them. To me, that's more than listing the property on a booking site. Hence the Facebook page, blog, book, twitter account, Google+ etc.
It's hard work, but when people come and love what you've done, it does pay back.
Could not find you on Le Nook.
I thought that we were discussing France and that Gites were not a good idea there.
Clearly it all goes back to what I said ....
It is not possible to do what J Average does...there will always be someone else who
explores the bookings sites and finds better places to present themselves.
There was a time when the sites you mentioned were excellent.
I am not sure if this is till certain.
Perhaps they are?
You are down on last year?
It is a very competitive world.
Have you just started?
Give things a chance.
The world is a confused place....
Bad idea...yes for some people.
agree with pretty much all previous points- tell him not to do it!! France has got expensive - many people we know with holiday homes who used to food shop on arrival now bring food from UK - with all the hassle of the French system, age related issues - it takes so much energy - and sheer pressure of having to make an income ... bad idea!!! we have one local Dutch well-established chambres d'hotes/gite that has reduced its prices, another Dutch owned that takes camper vans and ordinary camping, we have just opened as a one bed B & B - principally with a view to people travelling through France, house-hunting or just needing peace (very rural area) but key point is only looking to any income being a bonus. We aim to make it special but any money we've thrown at it is also with a view to up-speccing the house towards eventual sale. Just received our first booking - French from the south (we're centre) intrigued and looking forward to it ...
A good place to check out booking levels is Holiday Lettings site. Search the area and types of gite in question and click on the availability tab. Similarly with some other major sites eg Chez Nous. Do the homework and a fairly accurate objective picture should emerge.
We have a holiday let in the UK The Nook. We have noticed an apparent drop in forward bookings and short notice booking our best guess is about 10%.
yes we too have an outdoor pizza oven with vine wood and twigs, pizza
trays and the proper oven shovel.We offer to help with vineyard visits, shopping,
therapists and cooking, of course. I spend a lot of time in consultation with clients
sorting out their finer needs.It is all part of the job....to be attentive and patient.
Another important point is that the pool has to be maintained and perfectly clean
without seeming to be doing this when the clients are there....or near by.
The garden also has to be in order at all times.
Alex good idea about the workshop...
What you have created is great for families with kids....gives them the chance
to meet nature.
It all takes time.
Settling in France and establishing something different.
There are people who could benefit from your knowledge
of setting up clamping....not to be your competition but
to join you in the cascade of new ideas in the holiday
industry.
I have run a gite for nearly ten years here in Brittany.
This year is certainly the most difficult I have found. We have 25 weeks booked, so still busy, but 18 of those weeks are previous guests.
I believe we offer good value, and try hard to do that bit more - things like wi-fi/table tennis/White company towels/french and english tv etc really now have to be offered as standard, we also have a pizza oven, shopping service and other things to make us stand out.
As others have said, I would warn your friends to be wary of putting all their eggs in one basket - it's hard work (but often fun) it is most certainly a full time job - not just in the season, but year round - we re-paint every year and finding and managing new guests takes longer than people think.
Be sure that's what your friends really want! If it is, and they have good ideas and can offer that bit extra it can and does work - France is still a popular tourist destination worldwide.
You beat me to it, mentioning airbnb. I have a friend with a bell tent campsite in Portugal who only uses airbnb - and has done for a few years - quite successfully. I'm thinking of going down that road next year.
From a marketing perspective, the most important thing you can do is identify your target audience. Be as specific as you can (eg, couples who ride motorbikes and live in Devon). When you know exactly who you are talking to, you can gear your accommodation towards them. That means your images, words, extras, details of nearby attractions, how and where you spend your marketing budget etc.
I'll give you a real example, I chose to market our glampsite (http://www.ecovallee.com/) to Guardian-reading families with young children. Everything is geared towards this. Last year, one of the editors from the Graun came to stay, with his toddler. So I think I've hit the mark.
Just for interest, I was thinking about running a workshop on creating (or improving) websites for people who have gites. If this interests you, get in touch.
We bought a gite complex in central Brittany 3 years ago and our experience has been very positive. My guess is that there are local factors affecting the fall in bookings observed by some people - our bookings have increased steadily over the last 3 years - our gites are almost completely booked now from May to late September, with some weeks (and the occasional long-term let) over the other months too. My wife runs the booking side and largely manages the changeovers, meet and greet, etc - I help with the garden, the pool and the general maintenance - I still have some other paid work, but am gradually withdrawing from that.
I would advise your friends to go for it - though of course with the caveat that you do need to do it well, and it certainly is hard work. Are they the kind of people that would relish 'building the dream'?