Gordon Brown states that France will crumble next

General Discussion
41

Richard - You're only partially right in calling me a disgruntled Labourite with my feathers ruffled. I haven't actually voted for or supported Labour since Blair destroyed the old party - I guess that what got me going is the fact that everyone seems very happy to enjoy the good times under whatever government (after all the £/Euro exchange was still pretty good right up until 2008) and then throw mud and blame whenever things go awry. For me it wasn't any politicians or policies that caused the current crisis. It was corporate greed. And when I look at the make up of the millionaire cabinet with interests in banking and investments it doesn't fill me with any kind of hope that the situation will be eased for ordinary voters. Jane - I don't differentiate between Blair and other conservatives - and as much as I agree with you about your reference to Iraq, I really can't see the connection between that and the financial crisis.

42

We now understand why Tony Blair hung on for so long as PM, he knew!!!!

Of course, dear Tony who took us into an illegal war and then has the brass neck to turn up at the Cenotaph and is making money hand over fist now that he is no longer in office.

43

Oooeeeeeerrrrr, a labourite with ruffled feathers, nothing worse -lolol--- But I have to bring you to task on one or two issues.

Firstly let me say though, yes it was Gordon that said we'd be better out than in the Euro, he refused to massage the countries books in order to become elligible, now whether that was a right or wrong thing to happen only the future will tell, after all if the U.K. goes belly up we certainly won't be able to ask, or expect help from ANYONE else, the kind of help Greece and the others are getting AND we have already set in place our severe financial restrictions.

Secondly, Yes it was through dear old Gordon that University place increased to the "peasant classes" thus over crowding and financially upsetting the balance of the university coffers forcing dear old David to take the constraints of fees off, thus allowing universities --- NOT THE GOVERNMENT -- to charge basically what they like feel like irrespective of "quality of service".

Thirdly, Yes it was dear old Gordons lot that decreased unemployment simply by deleting vast amounts of the unemployed off the register by saying they were now employed because they were getting the "job seekers allowance" thus making them employed, by the government, seeeking jobs. Surely if you are --- seeking --- a job you are still unemployed ??.

Fourthly, Yes dear old Gordon did increase spending on the NHS, well , he actually just threw money at it and let nature take its course, money of course which HAD to be borowed from somewhere, and borrowing money we had to pay back at some time or another really appealed to dear old Gordon, so he borrowed more and more of it, never thinking for a moment he would ever have to pay back any of it. When the coalition took over, didn't I read somewhere that a note was left for the incoming minister basically saying ----" har har har we spent it all and there ain't none left".

Fithly, Yes i agree with you in certain ways, this adminisration is fairly shambolic, and the reason for that, yep, your'e right, dear old Gordon, and why ? --- He made such a cock-up of being the labour parties leader that the voting Labour public were so disgruntled they couldn't be arsed to turn out and vote, causing a hung parliament, so yes, fraid its dear old Gordons fault AGAIN.

So, taking all these accounts into focus, I'd say if dear old Gordon says France could be next in line for the chop we are all pretty safe here, I agree though, all countries, European or nor will feel the effects of the European problem, because , just like Mrs Average housewife, if hubbies laid off, spending and buying is cut to a minimum.

EVERY SINGLE CURRENCEY is suffering, because we are British we watch the "white mans tv, not being able, in the main, to follow the goings on of a rapid speaking French newscaster, but I do wholeheatedly agree with you, we all have to pull together, (suffer the cutbacks in relative silence) in order to get us back on the road again.

44

And Colin, the reason that unemployment fell was because the labour government created non jobs in the public sector and the increase in health spending wasn't matched by an increase in productivity. All that spending left the UK almost bankrupt. Here in France I've also noticed an increase in public spending, in my area anyway, but instead of spending on bureaucracy that benefits no one in the community, they have spent on things like highway resurfacing. We can all benefit from that. Who exactly benefits from 5 a day coordinators or cottaging outreach workers?

45

Many politicians were and still are against joining the Euro. Saying 50% of schoolchildren should go to university is plainly daft and has led to the mess that higher education is now in. Throwing huge amounts of money at the NHS- especially trying to get the investment 'off the books' with the PPI (a typical accountants ploy) has ruined it. The FSA under Mr. Brown was an ineffectual organisation which let RBS get completely out of control. On occasions in my career I have had to come into contact with both accountants and lawyers which has led me to two conclusions - never believe what they say it will cost because the final bill will be at least twice as much and they tell you what you want to hear! The main problem with politicians is that they have neither the skills or experience to be anything other than politicians. At least we can replace them at regular intervals. Looking to them to solve the problems we are in is not the way forwards. It will be, unfortunately, the bankers who sort it out.

46

How right you are about Gordon Brown Colin. The finest Chancellor we ever had(and unfortunately one of the worst Prime Ministers - Like all brilliant accountants, useless with people). But it was he who stopped UK from joining the Euro. Margaret Thatcher, with her beloved Ronald Regan, created the "Thatcher's Children" breed of measuring people by what they what they owned and what they could grab. The "I deserve it" brigade. That is what started the rot in the USA (who are to blame for the economic crises) and the UK. Imagine giving the unemployed 125% mortgages!!! And then the UK providing the insurance to back up these mortgages!! France, however, has never encouraged this type of crazy borrowing. Indeed, it is a crime to write a cheque if you do not have the money to back it up. They have only just introduced credit cards! I personally believe that if France goes down most other major economies will already have sunk.

47

Interesting to read so much criticism of Gordon Brown and his economic policies Wasn't it Gordon who stood against Britain joining the Euro? Wasn't it under Labour that more children than ever entered university? Wasn't it under Labour that unemployment actually fell and that spending in the Health Service increased? Britain currently has a Conservative-led shambolic administration which is incapable of seeing beyond its own limited ideals (i.e. how to make millionaire cabinet ministers even richer by taking money from essential services and allowing the bankers to run riot). So is he right about France? Well I sincerely hope not, but it is foolish to ignore warnings and warning signs. France has much of Italy and Greece's debt and although in a stronger position than Spain is not immune - any more than is Germany. For me the most interesting part of all this is that it is not the Euro but the British Pound which has suffered most over the past few years. This isn't just a European crisis, it is a meltdown of the international financial system as we know it. All we can do is try to pull together in unity and hope we come out of it intact.

48

Quite a few posters are quoting newspapers --economists and other pundit type views on the problems we are facing at present. But somehow it doesn't REALLY affect us, except that we haven't as much to spend as we used to, I realise I am retired and if I weren't, losing my job would be a disaster in itself.

If we believed EVERYTHING we were informed of I think the mental institutions would be over-run by now, and suicide would the major pastime of the day.

In the U.K. the labourites are telling the "blues" what they should be doing, it was them that were spending money hand over fist to begin with, that said,the Conservatives are frightened to say too much as it is either taken as a "U" turn, or a sign of weakness, instead of the political parties trying to gain "brownie points" against each other why don't they attmpt a joint way forward, and NO, I am NOT advocating proportional representation, just plain common sense.

49

The UK debt is nearly the same as the Italians according to the Sunday Times as a percentage of GDP. The Italian's economy should have collapsed years ago but around 30% of their money is in cash and never goes near a bank (except a Mafia one) and of course the government can't get it hands on any of it, which is probably a good thing as they are notoriously inefficient at spending it. Don't think the Chinese will ride over the hill to save us, their everage income is around £8,000 per year and they have increasing inflation.

50

Ah yes, this would be the same Gordon Brown who predicted the end of boom and bust. He got that wrong too!

51

He could be right, if he has read the same analyses as me, which suggest that in order to defend the Euro, the strong countries could be dragged down by the weaker ones. There is also talk this week of the strong Euro countries cutting the weaker ones adrift. It's obvious that the Eurozone is too big, because there is a lack of decisiveness, which in turn leads to uncertainty and instability. There is too much debt in the developed world and this needs to be got rid of. Austerity doesn't help, because it makes weak countries weaker. Defaults will happen, it's just a matter of who and when. Greece needs to default, so that it can start again. Unfortunately Greek debt is held by many banks, in France and elsewhere. Depending how much debt from a defaulting country a bank holds, it might become insolvent. Unless your bank deposits are guaranteed by the government, you could lose your savings if one of these banks folds. If you owe them money, however, it might be to your advantage.

As for wider impact, if you produce world class quality goods, the Chinese will buy them, regardless of price. This is why German speaking and Scandinavian countries are doing fine amid all the doom and gloom. Where your product sales depend on being cheap, you can't compete with China and other developing economies.

52

Personally, I don't really care because if the worst comes to the worst the eurozone will collapse, we will all go back to our original currencies, times will be very tough, oooeeerrrrrrrr where have I heard that before, the Eurozone has collapsed --NOT THE WORLD ----------- we are still going to need feeding, we are still going to need our "comforts", business will still go forward, it will take time but we will all survive,( well perhaps not me, I'll be dead)

It took over ten years to shake off the problems, i.e. rationing etc after the second world war, Then Ted Heath had to go on a three day week because the communist led unions were flexing their muscles, Margeret Thatcher caused boom and bust by letting go of the reigns, and yet --------- we are still here bemoaning our fate.

All these civil servants etc banging on about having to pay more into pension funds and having to work longer before they retire give my teeth the earache, when the pound collapsed my wife and I lost over eighty pounds a week, weve had to cut our cloth accordingly.Everyone says we have to have these austerity cuts and yet as soon as it affects them they start braying like wounded animals.

The Eurozone was an accident waiting to happen, EVERY SINGLE EUROZONE MEMBER STATE MASSAGED THEIR BOOKS IN ORDER TO QUALIFY TO JOIN, most of them thought they were going to make mountains of dosh at the expense of the richer member, well at least they got right, but now, what goes around, comes around, and they are having to pay the piper, and now they are are squeaing like stuck pigs.

If the Eurozone does collapse all it will mean, hopefully, is that we will go back to being a free trade area, the thing I voted to for in the first place, the federalists have had their day, and blown it, and why, >>>>>>

YOU ARE NEVER NEVER NEVER gong to get twenty seven different cultures, twenty seven differrent languages , twenty seven different sets of ideals , twenty seven different individual class distinctions to unite as one big federal europe,

53

We have lived here for seven years and nothing seems to have changed at all! However everybody knows that France owes a HUGE amount as a country but French people refuse to change anything! So many people have tried - since they took a few heads off! - to reform so many things but if they dont like it, they wont do it! There is something very endearing about that because when I lived in England, the farms disappeared, immigrants flooded in unchecked, etc. etc. and no one did anything! We have a gorgeous house in a seaside town in Charente Maritime - we eat well, we live well and the weather this year has been brilliant. The french way of life is much slower, more caring for one's fellow man, more family orientated and they all sit down TOGETHER for lunch every day! It drives you nuts when you want to buy something in the supermarket but it is good to at least come together once a day!! I really hope that Gordon is wrong but did he ever get anything right?

54

Quite a few of the French that I have spoken to about this would totally agree with him.

55

Hi Kimarie...I've lived here 30 years and in my opinion it's not just about France, it's a question of Europe and the rest of the western world (voir la planète entière): I assume you mean crumble financially. We'll crumble in that sense in France just like the rest...then we might get back a little way towards buying veg from the market and not Super Pu, get rid of the money heads and chill out and listen to Neil Young and why not the Dalai Lhama...let's face it..we couldn't do any worse than the bad road we've been led down..voilà..bon courage from la Vendée....

56

Most government ministers have never had a proper job - this certainly applied to Tony Blair's cabinets and therefore don't understand that whatever THEY do, the workers just keep on working. Here, there are more buildings being constructed near Pau airport and a lot of new houses are also being built in the area. Back in the UK, my home town of Colchester on a Thursday afternoon was very busy with a lot of carrier bags in evidence and the cafes and bars doing a good trade. There is a danger that we can talk ourselves into a deeper recession and there is evidence that the UK economy is being held back because there are not enough skilled people to enable businesses to expand.

57

Gordon who?

58

Hi Jayne,

I work in a factory. Last week I worked 41 hours. From next week it will be 46, the maximum possible without a derogation. It is, perhaps, the fonctionnaires who work as you suggest.

59

Could not agree more. He sold our gold at the lowest price it has ever been and robbed the pension funds of billions. Thanks for nothing Gordon.

60

We have been here 3 years and we have definately noticed that a lot of small business's have buckled, people are certainly pulling their horns in but I guess it is happening in every country so we might as well stay put