Guidance required with mental health/dementia problems

I have some good friends, a British couple who have both just turned 77. They have been together for nearly 60 years & have have two children & several grand children back in the UK. They’ve been in France for 20 years & have worked here (self employed mechanic & general builder, painting & decorating).

They are, obviously, fully in the French health system & have both had a lot of experience of it over the past several years.

However, they are now faced with the problem of the wife’s diminishing mental health & the husband (after three years of coping) has reached the end of his tether. Yes, he should have got her to voluntarily see a specialist a long time ago but that didn’t happen & he’s now faced with trying to get his wife to an appointment with her MT that she thinks is some big plot against her.

The biggest problem is not the general symptoms of dementia (although they certainly exist) but of her believing that her husband of nearly 60 years is actually someone else & that the real one has gone walkabout without telling her what he is doing.

This condition is called Capgras syndrome or the Capgras deulsion. If you’ve ever witnessed it, as I now have, it is very hard ro deal with, let alone live with on a day to day basis. In our friend’s case it’s not full time, but the periods of recurrence have become more frequent & longer, to the extent of near permanence.

Clearly she/they have to get to see a medical professional who can at least give a proper diagnosis & advise on what to do, as there is no cure as such.

Herein lies the problem; although both of the couple were competent French speakers the wife (who used to be the better linguist) has effectively given up talking or understanding it. The husband has, through necessity, had to up his language game but is, in my view, a long way from properly describing the problem/s accurately to a third party in French.

Due to the intransigence of the patient an escalating series of appointments & referrals in different medical cabinets is going to be very hard to achieve, if not impossible. What is required is a home visit from someone who is a cross between a mental health professional & a social worker, with an understanding of English.

I say that because I feel that the couple are on a knife edge of endangering themselves, either through potential violence in one direction or another, or succumbing to the despair of the situation (on the husband’s part) & deciding to end things. In that event the wife would simply fade away as she has ceased pretty much any kind of catering or domestic duty. Yes, it really has got that serious.

My wife & I try to keep an eye on them but we can’t do much more than sympathise, make tea, & be on call (which has happened a lot recently).

Has anyone out there had experience of anything similar, or has any knowledge of the right part of the health or social care service to contact? Fortunately my own 20+ years experience of the health service here has only given me experience of the way physical ailments are dealt with.

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There is a long thread on this very subject, which I think would be worth looking it. It’s called French Social Care for the Elderly but I don’t seem to be able to insert the link.

It broadly follows how David Spardo managed to get care for his wife Fran as her dementia took hold, but as with all threads includes much othe useful material.

Start there and then maybe ask specific questions. But the Medécin Traitant and Assistante Sociale are the critical contacts.

I can confirm this … not for OH or myself, but for a situation which arose in our village… albeit for a French person.

Is there someone who speaks good French and good English and with whom you have a good rapport.
Such a person would surely be invaluable to you/your friends at this very difficult time.

best of luck

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Of course…. I recall it now :roll_eyes:
Thanks.

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Definitely the david thread.

Is the MT friendly? Could an arrangement be made with the MT that he tries to visit when a call is received that the problem’s happening? after he makes his own appointment to explain and hopefully arrange. You haven’t said how long each occurrence of the non-recognition lasts, of who he is.

A friend ideally French who could come along and interpret would help. But it sounds like with a check of key phrases in Deepl ahead, he’ll be able to explain to the MT.

I don’t think he’s got any choice about having to see other specialists and continuing care. The condition is going to progess unless treated and may progress anyway. (I am not medically qualified it just sounds like it.)

This is what david was facing. Needing medical help was inevitable one way or another. So getting his wife onto the radar of medical and/or social support was the important first thing to do. And then there wa support as things evolved.

MT sounds like the gateway. He/she will probably take a look, have a chat, order some tests to check underlying physical factors, and then I suspect send her for a day or longer to a large hospital or specialist centre for assessment, and then make a plan.

Who knows perhaps there is a drug treatment that can hold it back, delay progression or even improve it.

Wondering if an appointment with the Aide Sociale at the Mairie might yield any info on any specialist local establishment that is known to be good for this kind of thing. It’s the kind of thing you’d also ask a very trusted local network about - local families born here would know. But it sounds like he doesn’t have that kind of discreet locally originating network available.

Better to take steps now and get plugged in or as you say a crisis point could be reached when there are no choices available as to how to manage it. It’s about getting options now and I would say that’s done by waving a flag in front of your MT.

I just re-read you post as I hadn’t picked up point of self-harm. Can you tell their Marie about this as where there is risk to life they can intervene and hopefully organise a home assessment. A Maire has some quasi-police powers and should take some action when informed of this sort of thing.

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Just seen this thread and can add very little to the wise words above, but the trigger for the involvement into the system was accidental. I came home after 2 days away to find my wife still at the table, obviously not having been to bed, and showing distinct signs of having had a stroke.

Doctor called and she was hopitalised and immediately diagnosed with vascular dementia, caused by the stroke which had robbed her of multiple blood vessels in the brain.

Everything else followed without much help from me, doctor, specialist in elderly care (forgotten my own English for it) and over time a great deal of help to keep her treated at home. There seemed to be a magical developement, much of which the origins escape me now but we ended up with aides from 2 organisations coming into the house 4 times a day and even on Sunday, though a reduced number.

So the help is there once you find the trigger and it is all in that thread mentioned above, which was not my thread btw but we seemed to take it over during many months.

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Yes, the couple have a lovely female MT. She works as part of a large practice & the chances of a last minute call for a home visit working are slim. It is also highly likely that the condition would reduce/disappear if a visitor appears.

It can vary, but sometimes days. Even if the husband is acknowledged he gets shouted at for disappearing & allowing the other bloke to be there instead.

Agreed, but getting the patient to them is tricky (as already mentioned), & the husband is so tired out by the whole thing that getting him into action is very hard.

If it’s actually Capgras then there is no cure, just possible management with antipsychotics.

Duly noted. The couple live in small commune & the Mairie has limited opening hours, but they do know the Maire & their secretary well i.e. an approach by a third party (us!) would be possible.

…which is good to know. The big problem is getting the trigger pulled.

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I reckon we’re all crossing fingers that your friends get the necessary help asap.

:crossed_fingers: :crossed_fingers:

Dementia is a terrible condition, I’ve dealt with it not only with my own mother but also mother in law. Dad is showing early signs (he is nearly 91 though).

The fact that it has a variable course should be recognised by any competent GP or MT, and cognitive testing is unlikely to be normal even on a good day. Good doctors should also recognise that patient insight is typically minimal and most referrals will be from family.

I hope that both get the help that they need.

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Thanks for all your continued sympathy & support.

I went through the dementia ‘journey’ with my own mother, but she was a fairly standard case i.e. none of the paranoia or Capgras syndrome that our friends are living through.

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I don’t know what the position is with regards to anti-dementia drugs but it is in the early stages that they can make most difference so I think intervention really is needed.

Get her to doc - or better doc to her - by hook or by crook. Deception is warranted till he gets her in front of the doctor.