The first thing you need to do is go to the Mairie and discuss the potential project with them. You need to find out if you will be allowed to do what you want… on the particular plot of land.
I would suggest that you do not commit yourself to buying, without confirming that you will be able to do what you are planning…
On the face of it… you’ll need Permission of one sort or another to demolish/rebuild/whatever… and it is the Mairie who will set you on the right path.
and, please don’t assume that one can simply build a small “shed/whatever” without the need to discuss with the Mairie and to complete the Préalable (at the very least).
The forms can appear daunting, because they cover almost every eventuality.
But various sections might not need completing, depending on the individual project… again… speak with the Mairie and ask their guidance.
I did our plans & application for a full change of use (agricultural to dwelling) back in 2004. We were not extending the property then, but the finished habitable floor area being created was under the limit of that where you need an architect. All went smoothly.
In 2017 we applied to build a 38m² single storey timber frame extension. We had to get it in quick as the limit for needing an architect dropped to 150m² of overall habitable space in March that year, where it remains, & our final area is 168m²(which was only 2m² under the limit at that point).
On that occasion we ran the plans past the local service technique office before actually submitting them via the Mairie. This was on the advice given by the Maire’s secretary, in order to ensure that it didn’t come back for some tiny detail. There were some notes that they wanted added to plans, but otherwise all was fine so it went through without drama once I’d made those additions.
P.S. I’m fully conversant with CAD software, which is a help
You may find that including any small shed, garage or annexe structure - if included at the time of the main application - may avoid any unnecessary additional expense in the planning process. Be careful to plan what you want in advance and be straight up with your plans from the off.
We managed to include a double garage and hangar for wood storage almost the same size as the house at the time of the original application without any issues.
Absolutely correct, Graham… the need to discuss the whole project is very important.
Let’s face it, it might well be allowable to demolish/rebuild/enlarge what is existing…
but NOT allowable to put up another building…
(I’m sure I’ve posted about this just recently… )
I’m frequently stressing the “small building” bit since there are too many folk who think they can do it “just like that”… aaargh.
No. If the total habitable surface area after changes/additions comes to over 150m² then an architect is required, even if the new works are, say, only 15m². Up until March 2017 the limit used to be 170m².
For example…
Existing habitable space of 110m² + new (or converted) space of 35m² = 145m² means there is no need to use an architect.
Existing habitable space of 130m² + new (or converted) space of 30m² = 160m², which means you need to employ an architect.
Having now talked it through with my partner, that does seem to match his understanding, so thank you - very clearly put! We are (fortunately?) well below the 150m² mark so no problem on that front. Does anyone know if things changed at all this year? Quite a few of the regulations that did apply to us changed at the beginning of last year…
What I keep getting confused with is that you also have to submit a statement about your (increased?) taxe d’habitation liability at the same time and unfortunately the “habitable space” definition is significantly different between planning application and taxe liability. I know garages and buanderies didn’t count for tax but not sure about what counted for the planning side.
One very important thing to consider (and the reason for engaging professional services) is the more recent requirement regarding insulation normes. This probably requires the calculations to be done by someone experienced in such affairs and not left to chance.
So much to consider of course, but utilise the local services to make the task easier in the long run is the best and most complete advice I can offer and the very best of luck with your project.
Not so. Any space with a ceiling height of 1,8m or above counts as habitable space, but staircases, lift shafts, wall & partitions & a host of other bits don’t count. Here’s chapter & verse…
La surface habitable est une notion de droit immobilier. Elle est définie par l’article R. 111-2 du Code de la construction et de l’habitation :
« La surface habitable d’un logement est la surface de plancher construite, après déduction des surfaces occupées par les murs, cloisons, marches et cages d’escaliers, gaines, embrasures de portes et de fenêtres. Il n’est pas tenu compte de la superficie des combles non aménagés, caves, sous-sols, remises, garages, terrasses, loggias, balcons, séchoirs extérieurs au logement, vérandas, volumes vitrés prévus à l’article R. 111-10, locaux communs et autres dépendances des logements, ni des parties de locaux d’une hauteur inférieure à 1,80 mètre. »
I understood it not to be landings / halls / stairways. But that was then. Crossed with @Badger . I’ll stop offering anymore as he obviously knows what’s what.
There used to be the distinction between brut and net, SHOB including everything, and SHON with the exceptions. But I think this has been swept away.
One thing said to us was that our planning department would be far more flexible if we had an architect on board. So we did, but I actually did all the work as it turned out he was a unreliable drunk. However it went through with no problems (150m2 three story total renovation).
Like with many things in France it seems daunting at first as so much of the administration is ridiculously over-complex. But if you take it tiny baby steps at a time it does all fall into place.
That was always the tricky bit to get a handle on, my friends built their place from scratch and bathrooms, toilets and kitchen was not included on theirs, I asked them to double check as most forums had other ideas, they did and were told they didnt and the 1.8m headheight chopped off quite a bit of the habitable area. So it seems taxable area and planning sq m is different.
Thanks for the explanation and link Badger, very helpful again and as Jane said some bits seemed to have been changed since then.
Very nice. Does habitable sq m include counting all floors? What if what you’re modernising or converting is already over the 150, say if you’re already 250, and what you want to do won’t actually make it any bigger?
If said space / area is already declared as living space in the majority cases you can do pretty much on the inside as you like. Example, you have a total of 15 rooms on 3 floors, the 3 floors are declared as living space total 250m2. If you decide to convert the living space to have 8 rooms that’s fine. If you have an attic you want to convert to living space or an adjoining outhouse that’s another thing entirely.
We did all the work on the PdC for our initial building project. We had bought a property of nearly 700m² which we planned to develop into apartments under permanent rental. Having worked earlier in my career as a draughtsman it was not an onerous task to produce drawings that could be read by any builder or official from the Mairie or BdF. We then set about finding an architect who was new to the game and with little work and, for 500€, had them peruse and sign off the plans. Next we set up a SARL covering electricals, plumbing and plaster-boarding and applied for grants to the tune of some 23k for two of the apartments which became subject to fair rent limits for nine years but hey ho that led to the other seven flats being rented at our rates, each one partially financing the next.
Thanks everyone for the amazing feedback and the many ‘nuggets’ of information. I will have more questions, I am sure, and might post as a new topic if it helps some future person searching about a specific aspect of the PdC. Many thanks
Will do. I’m still waiting for information from the vendor before I can move forward. It may take some time but I’ll come back if/when I get through the process. Thanks again all.
