Thanks for the response Geoffrey. The other ducks lined up were private health insurances. What worried me was if no insurance was demonstrated what’s one’s position re. legal residence. So I looked further into the S1 worker legislation, and what is the exact nature of UK / France agreements.
The European directives on social security co-ordination are summarised here:
Which country you’re covered by depends on 2 factors :
- your work situation (employed, self-employed, unemployed, posted abroad, working across the border from where you live, and so on)
- your country of residence - not your nationality.
You may not choose which country you will be covered by.
When working or living abroad, you will have social security cover by either your home country or the host country . In either case, you’ll need to make arrangements to make sure you stay covered after you move to your new country.
I guess if France decides I am working in France – telecommuting, then I am covered by France from the date of theS1 application. (And have to set up my employer on URSAFF- they will not be happy with that!) But if France says the telecommuting is only temporary because of pandemic restrictions then they will say to UK the UK is responsible. Either way they sort it out. (Eventually). (Theory)
In EU guidance on implementing the WA,
EU guidance note
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52020XC0520(05)
It states: Portable Documents issued before the end of the transition period will not automatically become invalid.
The basic principle is that these documents have just a declaratory nature. They do not, by themselves, create rights to the persons concerned. The rights themselves are created by the Agreement. That might suggest the fact I am insured by paying NI contributions / registering at URSAFF and having applied for a portable healthcare document is sufficient to be ‘legal’, by definition of the agreement?
France has indicated telecommuting restrictions are suspended at the moment: there’s plenty of sources here: e.g. French Embassy in London – in English
(March 2020) An increase in the amount of time spent on French territory due to more home working (usually restricted to 25%) will have no impact on social security cover: cross-border employees will continue to be covered by the social security system of the State in which they work.
Of course they talk of EU countries here but a presumption might be as it’s in English, it also applies UK…
Incidentally it refers specifically to the France / Swiss agreements you mentioned.
Another source is the Ameli website, again talks of EU/EEA/Suisse – has the no more than 25% work in France suspended until end June.
In France, frontier working seems to be overseen by Cleiss - la protection sociale dans un contexte de mobilité internationale.
FAQ’s
- I am employed or self-employed in the United Kingdom, I am insured under the British social security system and I reside in France. From January 1, 2021, will my health insurance situation change and if so, under what conditions?
Taking into account the provisions of the Withdrawal Agreement and (with unchanged situation) [at the same time], your health insurance coverage and the conditions under which you are insured do not change. You continue to benefit from the benefits under the same conditions as currently.
Compte tenu des dispositions prévues par l’accord de retrait et à situation inchangée, votre couverture d’assurance maladie et les conditions dans lesquelles vous êtes assuré ne changent pas.
If you have not already done so, you should apply for the portable document S1 “Enrollment for health insurance cover” from the UK Social Security Fund. This document will allow you to register with the French health insurance fund in your residence. The S1 form will be valid for the duration of your residence in France and will allow you to be covered under the same conditions as an insured under the French social security system.
Which is what I’ve done! (Incidentally the FAQ now also references the trade and cooperation agreement).
I phoned the English speaking CPAM helpline and a lady said I will be affiliated from the date on the S1 and any treatments eventually refunded. Also confirmed the EHIC is not valid (for my situation).
On whether to take out the private healthcare in the meantime, for the WA deadline, I found this post
https://www.thelocal.fr/20201207/the-documents-for-british-people-in-france-after-btexit
That post says when one comes to applying for the CdS simply download an attestation de droits from your account – it will be dated from the date you request it, and upload for the CdS.
That would imply it’s not necessary to have private cover in place before the WA deadline(or it might be necessary to have an assurance cover, but the powers that be aren’t going to require proof of it before WA deadline).
Of course I don’t know whether the local is a reliable source – but when searching I also read the large post
where they did post, as did you. Perhaps I should have added my post there, though I don’t actually have one yet. Clearly though persistence and not believing the officials is a key theme.
So following that further research I’m minded not to add the private insurance duck at least at the moment, continue to chase the S1 from HMRC – and that seems to need my raising a complaint now? – and in 2 months down the line if nothing resolved at least to make the CPAM / PUMA application on the basis of 3 months residence. In short an insurance for my current insurance not necessary.
Would be pleased to read any further comments you or anyone may have on my logic, thanks and regards Dave.