As luck would have it, the visitors to the gite this week have an E-208 - the baby version of what I have ordered. They drove down from Paris making a few stops. They confirmed that is no different to making stops with an ICE car, as one rarely, if time is not crucial, makes a fuel stop without a relax and/or a coffee that takes about the same time as a full charge. So I am filled with more confidence now! I just wish Peugeot would be the same and start shooting the cars out the gate!
Now to my point. Visitors arrived with 50 odd kms left in their range. Normally they would charge up at a supermarket whilst doing their shop, but they produced a granny charger (they bought off Amazon for 120€) and asked if they could use it. We agreed to a 10€ charge - based on the car needing no more than 54kw. They were happy and at 9am yesterday morning, the car was fully charged! I now shall not bother with any fancy ‘fast’ boxes, and rely on good ol’ Amazon!!
My question: what losses might be incurred using a granny charger? ie is a full kwh delivered to the battery and does the battery ever get to a stage where it loses some of the delivered kwh? Or, are any such losses negligible?
If you’re buying brand new , it should come with a “granny” charger lead and a fast charger lead (at least my R5e did). I dont think there is any significant loss of electricity using a grany lead, maybe only a few watts to heating
Not my view, but perhaps you won’t even need to as car will come with the leads you need.
(If you are letting people charge on a domestic plug in your gîte do make sure it is at the very least a dedicated socket and they don’t overload a plug board, and check you have adequate smoke alarms just in case, and check your insurance)
OK Adam .. I am currently in France on on the 6 KW tariff . Since our arrival in the house in mid June we have not used the services of any commercial charger . We have a Granny Charger which came with my VW ID3 and it happily feeds in 2KW . overnight . If anything it is more gentle and more efficient than any of the higher power chargers at Service stations . Although the French system provides 16 amps from a domestic socket ,the Granny Charger limits itself to 10Amps . ..and were it to be used in the UK with 13Amp circuits ..it would still limit itself. This is because unlike other appliances the charger is plugged in for many hours and the heating in the socket builds up. As I have answered elsewhere the Granny charger. is not actually a charger ..It is an assortment of internal switches and safety devices and a SLAVE .The Charger is in the EV itself and it’s the Master .. It instructs the Granny to supply current and when to stop.
The Granny itself uses very little power ..just enough to power up a bit of electronics and power relays . The 10 amps of 2KW moves trough it into the Charger in the EV. Any Efficiency or lack will be inside the EVs Charger system .. I would assume that this is designed to be most efficient at about 15KW ..or at 22KW 3 phase ..
It might be more gentle but it’s definitely not more efficient as there are quite a lot of losses when the car is converting the AC to DC, unlike the DC feed of rapid chargers at charging stations.
JohnH , Can I beg to differ a little? … The Super Chargers provide either 800 or 400V DC perhaps 450V and 900V and that has to be controlled by the electronics in the EV and trottled down. Now when using these I distinctly hear two sets of noises … The internal fans inside the EV cooling this control circuits and managing the temperature rise in the battery pack . And the much louder roar from the fans in the super charger itself as it converts the HV AC 3 phase into the DC. . Now the user charging their vehicle might not be charged for the inefficiency in the Supercharger box , ..but they do see it in the tariff…
You are correct that there are inefficiencies in converting from AC to DC and that is one reason why there is a limit to the power intake in EVs using their internal chargers.
Thanks Mark. Yes, the pug’s granny lead apparently is 1.9kw. My visitors wanted a tad quicker and reckoned that for a 100.€ odd, worth a 3.7 to give double quick…
Thanks Badger for confirming. I can be near enough then in boring everyone at dinner parties that 300kms on my new hot hatch will cost me a tenner against ‘your, ahem’ diesel SUV cost of 35€
The 16 amps schuko type plug and socket can deliver 3.7 KW of power ..but it is really running at its maximum . You would need to be very sure that all the wiring is top quality and the socket and plugtop were top rated .. These systems are not intended to deliver 3.7 KW for an extended time .and a fixed connection path is the norm … So if you got one of those ..I would dial it back
My reading of Adams posting is that there was no special socket ..just the standard and these people arrived with a cable they got on Amazon. ..And sure enough such units do exist at the 120 euro mark on Amazon and make no reference to dedicated sockets . Obviously the Greenup system you identify is the better way.. but it is 3 times the price and still needs installing. My fear or expectation is that more people will just go to Amazon and spend 120 euro and plug them into indifferent old wiring
I can add, having had 5 hybrid cars in the past, all charging using the granny charger that it is best practice to have a dedicated socket direct to the fusebox with the appropriate fuse. When I got the first hybrid I was advised by the dealer to have a dedicated socket, a normal outdoor one was fine as long as the cabling and fuse were correct. When I had the outdoor plug socket installed the electrician tested it and said the earthing was an issue, he put on 5 extra earthing rods, no extra charge for this. Mine only ever charged at about 1.6kws as Mercedes limited it to this for safety.
When I got my EV I opted for a wallbox, mine is Legrand and no, in France you don’t need a stop button. This is a link to it:
The good thing I find with this is that you can adjust the charge rate, mine is set to 4.5kw as I use solar, plus I can still run the washing machine etc without overloading the linky. I believe you can drop it to 3.7kw or up to 7.4kw. Quite good if you want to restrict consumption.
Also true, but the DC supplied by a rapid charger is usually converted from the local AC grid, so maybe that’s where the argument balances out…?
P.S. Of course some rapid charge sites are powered from local battery storage that is charged by local DC from solar PV, so no need to convert. However, often the local batteries are charged from a mix of locally produced power but also AC from the grid in order to add resilience.
I got the basic GreenUp socket that will do this for around this price, so no, it’s not 3 times the price. The home chargers are, the basic socket is not
I was referring to the unit Badger had illustrated of a* granny cable" and enhanced socket kit which together cost about 320 euro. ..And presumably with good wiring to the distribution board is safe up to 3.7KW.
