Why do you suppose it is that French banks impose spending limits on your funds, for example, there is a limit on how much cash I can withdraw from an ATM in any given period. This goes for card transactions too, frequently we have gone over our designated limit and our cards are refused despite there being adequate funds in the account to cover the transaction. I have spoken to two French banks about this and both have refused to remove the limit, although they have agreed to raise it slightly.
Second, the limits are for the bank's protection (although they will try to convince you it's for your benefit). It's to limit their losses if someone steals your card and pin and goes on a spending spree. (US cards have similar limits, BTW.)
Most French banks that issue the Carte Bleu are very tolerant of spending levels even if your charges exceed the cash balance in the account. If I had to guess, I'd say it's based on a credit evaluation or seniority of the account.
The Europeans have developed bureaucracy to a fine art, especially in finance. They are very concerned about money laundering and terrorist funding, so their approach to banking is much more formal than even the post-Patriot Act bank behavior in the U.S.
Annette - Is there anything to stop you writing a cheque for something? You should also be able to go into any local branch of your bank and get cash with a cheque. As you say, it's your money, and I've never heard of any restrictions on using cheques that apply to people whose accounts are in credit.
As for overpriced Danish accounts, I agree with you; my son used to work for Danske Bank in Denmark.
Not all French banking seems to me to be quite as primitive as some believe it to be. Cartes Bleues with chips have been the norm here for more than 20 years; they only arrived in other European countries relatively recently and are still almost unheard of in North America. (I actually have a US card with a chip, but this is practically unique.) Virtually all French ATMs, again for more than 20 years, have worked for all CBs, regardless of which bank you're with. Compare that with the US, or the UK in the past. E-banking (through Minitel) showed years ago that this was a viable mechanism and popular with customers. SEPA (Euro) payments from other countries arrive in my account within 24 hours of being transmitted. My CB charges show on my account more quickly (2 days within France) than my UK debit card charges (3 days within the UK).
Sure, neither France nor the UK can match NZ's EFTPOS speed, but would anyone like to compare the number of bank branches in those countries? The UK has, quite recently, finally put into place the Faster Payments System, but it could have been there 15 years ago if anyone had put their minds to it, and the SEPA system should improve things over here. Direct Debiting in the UK is done in 'real-time' (your available balance is normally checked when the transaction is presented) and that is what doesn't happen in France. This is part of the thinking behind transaction limits, though most electronic systems have limits of some sort. It's just that because the 'real-time' processing isn't happening here (yet?), the French limits are relatively low. In the UK, my bank doesn't allow me to transfer more than £25,000 per day. Here it's closer to 10% of that.
There's no doubt that, in some respects, French banking has feet of clay, but I hope it can be seen that sometimes it's actually in the vanguard.
Truly primitive in my opinion. When you make a credit card transaction it takes days to come up on your statement. There's no equivalent of EFTPOS instantaneous transaction at shops. Ridiculous charges etc as others have mentioned. A little country like NZ is vastly superior in banking. I have a NZ account and credit card which is great for moments when you really need money fast. Those limits are silly, their excuses are ridiculous but, hey, this is France and we have to be super organised and find work-arounds.
These rules about transaction limits are going to get worse. I think that the best policy is to have at least three accounts in different places and then you can keep balancing them. It does require time input though. At one stage in my life I was put through the mill by the Bank of Scotland who gave me a long lecture on how to run a business (look what happened to them!). In France I use my Banque Postale account for my general living and find them OK but then I am retired and not running a business. My guess is that trying to run a business in France must be an absolute nightmare and you would spend all your time dealing with the various controls and taxes and not enough on your core business. BTW if you happen to get a train from Paris to Lausanne and you don't look like a student or tourist be prepared for grilling and possible searching of luggage etc on the train by roving Douanes looking for people taking large wads of cash into Switzerland. They were really disappointed when they found that I had 89 euros on me as I had said! I think many French still do stash the cash.
Banking in France is just appalling - out of the dark ages. Clumsy and inefficient. Every time I ask my bank to do something or change something - they get it wrong (and take forever to get it wrong). If my bank account was in credit in Australia, I paid no bank charges. Here I pay an absolute fortune every month on bank charges (as well as an annual "file handling" charge). Another example of an overly protected, inefficient industry. Don't get me started on why I prefer to use amazon.co.uk - rather than amazon.fr!
I have lived in France for the last 25 years, and have been Fiscally resident here for that length of time, . never found the need or practice to have accounts in foreign countries or foreign currency. Have used my French cards over the world without any problems. I notice most posters have a foot in the Euro zone and the other in Sterling.
I'm in the process of buying a house in France - having second thoughts after reading these posts - & opened an account with the Banque Postale as it was the simplest to set up in a hurry. Anyone else use them instead of a bank?
James are you a mind-reader, I was about to have a moan about French banks!
In early September I suspected my computer was being hacked, as I took a call from what purported to be the ‘Windows Help Desk’ helping me find intruders, which in fact I had. As a security precaution I have replaced all my bank cards, passwords, and PINs and re-formatted my hard drive, just in case they left anything behind!
We have five separate sources of cards and online banking in the UK - all five sent, and we received, new cards, new passwords and where appropriate new PINs, all within five working days - brilliant service, with no complaints, no form filling, and no charges.
Contrast that with the Bank Populaire Occitane! It has taken fifteen working days to replace our two cards, send new PINs and supply a new cheque book. During that time we could not use our cards, ran out of cheques and cash, could not top up our SKYPE account because the card had been scrapped, had to answer various questions, sign contracts for bog-standard cards, and meet charges - we have paid €210 for two cards, one of which was not requested and never used, and the other only used about four or five times!
Our bank told me that they have these fairly restricted limits because it costs them less to insure for losses. So yes, if you want to have the limits raised, they usually pass on additional costs to you too by making you sign up for an account that costs more.
My bank agreed to raise these limits fairly substantially ... but only by migrating to a fancier account with a fancier monthly fee associated with it!
I was looking at back issues of 'La Tribune' and 'Challenges' just to see what banking attitudes, policy and so on are. Lo and behold, the first thing that strikes me is that the vast majority of financial crime is carried out by people with vast fortunes to play with and tax evasion is treated much like a sport amongst them. So, there we have the people who are clearly using more than this ridiculous €2,500 a month since the dodgy deals they are into often involve the movement of millions.
So why are normal punters treated the way they are. In fact, I see it as an incentive for more people to put and keep money outside France. I know some people seem to think that this is some kind of 'socialist' way of managing money but given that all the banks are into whatever business they can stick a finger into and investing worldwide like everybody else they are just as capitalist as anybody else. In fact possibly more so since by limiting how much of one's own money can use in a given amount of time, they are actually maximising on the amount of time they have to use OUR money for their investment to make THEIR profits.
Perhaps it's time for a new project, James: a wall/table/bed/shed made out of pallets/floorboards/scaff-planks with a secret, loose plank to stash the loot...? :-)
One of the differences between France and the UK is the use of cheques. In the UK the banks are keen to make cheques redundant, while in France they are widely used and of course the debit card limit is then irrelevant. With some exceptions, I am not sure the UK banks are good advertisements for customer service. In France you do generally have a known and consistent contact at the bank who you can talk to, rather than needing to battle with anonymous call centres in far flung parts of the world.
There is a limit on cash withdrawals on machines in France and UK to stop theft - just as well when I had my handbag stolen with money taken from machines on both my debit and credit card. My credit card bank paid me back immediately but it took almost two months to convince my debit card bank that I was not at fault.
My experience of paying with a card happened at an electrical wholesaler. I decided to pay by debit card knowing that the money was in the bank. It was rejected twice. I think I returned home to get the cheque book, anyway they got paid. I contacted the bank. There is a €2500 limit per month on each card we have. So, as my husband and I have one each we can pay up to €5000 per month using both. If I thought I was likely to pay this regularly I could have the limit increased. "Each card has weekly and monthly limits for payments and withdrawals" - quote from Credit Agricole site.
There is no limit to the amount you can withdraw over your own bank branch counter but at any other branch, I think, and definitely in any branch (of your own bank!) in another department in France you will have to arrange withdrawal in advance - as we found out.
Best thing is to try and retain a British credit card as a very useful last resort even for cash (expensive) and be prepared to pay by cheque.
Isn't it all about the French attitude to customer service generally? Customers are Bl**dy nuisances who certainly shouldn't be encouraged to get above themselves! Give them a millimetre and they'll want kilometres. Much better to keep them in their place and then we can avoid making any real effort.
That said, it's ultimately the French public who bring this about by their wholesale acceptance of the status quo. I see new online banks starting up, but they seem only to have a miniscule share of the market. If HSBC, who don't have much of a presence here, set up a First Direct type of operation, it probably would take years to become profitable as the public would be extremely suspicious of any new, and foreign, setup. Much the same could be said for Sainsburys or Tesco coming into France, and as for Walmart, the very name would cause rotting vegetables to be collected for protest purposes. (The fact that normally the smell of the same rotting vegetables is permeating a great many French supermarkets shows what becomes of them most of the time.)
Banks have learned nothing at all from the crisis that they created, regardless of where they are in the world. Their security systems (which presumably is the excuse for imposing arbitrary limits) are useless - witness the 1.5 billion dollar money laundertng fine on HSBC. They seem to suffer from never wishing to make personal contact with ANY customer, and believing that the procedures they impose are perfectly in order. In fact if you look closely at many of the banks' procedures, for example account opening, you will see a remarkable similarity with that of the passport application form which is at least 50 years out of date and has never had much impact on stopping forged passports anyway. Result? A nusiance and an affront to well over 95% of people who are honest and law abiding.
Banks have descended to the lowest of the low - even double glazing salesmen are more trustworthy - and show no signs of wanting to move out of that position
Would I rather have lots of money available for me, or would I prefer someone else to have that money available for their purposes?
As we have no choice but to use banks we are in their power, and they of course like having our cash to invest to make more cash for themselves(or get into debt). What would happen if everyone went to their bank and took all their money out? How irresponsible.
So, because of greed and control and fear they don't like giving you your money. In fact once you have paid you money into the bank they see it as their money. They also probably think you might not spend it wisely frittering it away on food and shoes for the kids.
As for fraud. They know a lot about that don't they?
I'm thinking of taking out my money and keeping it in a place where there is easy access and theres no risk. Under the mattress.
