How long can I stay without becoming tax resident

Interesting stuff Alex… I’m put it in it’s own thread, so others can find it more easily…

Definitely appreciate all the replies, but it isn’t very clear, there is a difference between residency in an EU country, and tax residency. One does not imply the other. Or maybe half the internet is just confused, which is entirely possible I guess. From nearly all of the articles I have read, this allows someone to spend up to 183 days a year in most EU countries before registering to pay tax there.

@graham @anon88169868 - yes of course with the standard 90 in 180 rule I couldn’t stay like I described. I was more meaning with residency, under the 183 day per year rule (which according to this forum, doesnt really exist). Although with my NZ passport even on the 90 in 180 rule I could stay in the Schengen, just switch countries https://www.mfat.govt.nz/assets/NZ-Embassies/Geneva-Switzerland/Border-controls-in-Europe-Schengen.pdf. And for the record I definitely voted remain! Being part of the EU was the whole reason I moved to the UK from NZ.

@John_Scully - Yes this is was why I was hoping to register as resident (but not tax resident) before the end of the year. But apparently it doesnt work like that. I dont really see it as tax exile as I’d still be paying tons of tax in the UK - some digital nomads arent tax resident anywhere though, so it IS possible to be in ‘tax exile’.

@RicePudding - Great articles thanks, best response so far. So it does indeed look like most of the internet is wrong.

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OK, where did you mention you are the holder of a NZ passport?

Some countries in Schengen will not apparently still honour the NZ agreement. :wink:
I don’t think that the NZ bilateral agreement will confer special rights in regard to work permits though…

The 183 day rule used to exist - not quite legally but tolerated. Especially as France was one of the few countries not to require foreigners to register. However Brexit has changed things!

You also need to look at the difference between losing tax residency in one country, and gaining it another. France and the UK have long been incompatible in these requirements which really hasn’t mattered up until now.

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The Info I and everyone else has given you is freely available on the French Govt sites… whether you care to believe it or not…

byee…

Sorry Dave, being resident in one jurisdiction and “legally” only paying tax in another is generally the big boys game (or US multinationals) who have deep pockets for the best tax advice. The people in the Impots, HRMC, etc. have smart cookies working for them too (some of which go on to be highly remunerated tax partners in the aforementioned firms) and, as much as I can understand the sentiment, the chances of a punter like you or me outwitting them or spotting a loophole are slim. Plus if you get it wrong the penalties are severe.

Between being on assignment abroad and moving homes several times I’ve had a some complicated tax issues. Fortunately personal tax advice from PWC and later KPMG was a perq of my job. For which I was very grateful because I was constantly surprised at just how complex and obscure the stuff was.

Based on that, my advice to you is to write down exactly what you want to achieve, pick up the phone to Bleven Franks (or similar) and pay for their informed opinion. It won’t cost a fortune, you will know exactly where you stand and can plan your life accordingly. Hopefully nomadically clattering your clavier without looking over your shoulder.

Good luck.

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I do not claim to understand tax residency as my field of interest centres around cars.
To register a car here you are required to provide proof of “domicile”, not “address” or “residence”. Domicile is a state rather than a place & is often misunderstood by holiday home owners, for example.
Often presentation of a household bill is sufficient but if the address shown is NOT your domicile, you are lying.
Today, vehicle registrations are processed online & access to the system by individuals is reliant on the applicant being on another government database such as income tax, health or social security - none of which are open to tourists. New arrivals would need to use a third party.
For vehicle registration purposes residency is measured differently to tax & the EU has this -

  1. REGISTERING A MOTOR VEHICLE IN THE MEMBER STATE OF RESIDENCE

3.1. What is the Member State of residence for the purpose of registration?

According to the Court of Justice, registration is the natural corollary of the exercise of the powers of taxation in the area of motor vehicles. It facilitates supervision both for the Member State of registration and for other Member States, since registration in one Member State constitutes proof of payment of taxes on motor vehicles in that State (11).

Every individual must register his vehicle in the Member State in which he is normally resident. Article 7 of Directive 83/182/EEC (12) and Article 6 of Directive 83/183/EEC (13) set out precise rules for determining normal residence in situations where the persons concerned are respectively temporarily or permanently living and driving in a Member State other than their own. However, the case law of the Court of Justice holds that the quantitative criterion to which this article refers (having to live more than 185 days per year in a given place) cannot be taken as the main criterion if there are other factors which alter the situation.

According to the Court of Justice, where a person has both personal and occupational ties in two Member States, his normal residence, determined in the context of an overall assessment by reference to all the relevant facts, is that where the permanent centre of interests of that person is located; in the event that such an overall assessment does not result in its determination, primacy must be given to personal ties (14).

@Stella is absolutely correct. It is a requirement.

Actually some countries do want to accommodate digital nomads, but they are a bit colder than France. See https://e-resident.gov.ee/

As for the original poster, I am afraid you seem to be from the “Cake and eat it” school. Lots of things in your “plan” just don’t stack up and residency is a two way street with obligations as well as privileges. Many rules have been successfully bent over the years but I think it is unlikely that the French authorities will be lenient on UK residents trying to game the system post-Brexit. And the cutoff date is 31st December this year, BTW, even if there are some extra months in which to get the paperwork sorted. If you can’t prove residency by that date then you miss the boat.

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Isn’t the e-residency more about how to set up your business, but doesn’t avoid the basic question of where you are resident if you plan to stay in one place? True nomads, who are fairly continually on the move and have no permanent lodgings are perhaps different?

Yes you are right. I do recall one of the Baltic states announcing a new scheme just within the last couple of months, which I seem to recall offered residency for 13 months or something similar. I am not interested so didn’t note it and had assumed it might be Estonia and connected to their e-residency scheme but this might be wrong. A quick google didn’t show anything and I am not sufficiently interested to dig further - sorry if this was misleading.

That’s interesting Russell, but a quick glance makes me think it’s for companies, not individuals? An attempt by Estonia to encourage direct foreign investment, probably with a tax angle too. Fair dos to them :slightly_smiling_face:

Try looking at it this way Dave. A Croatian or Italian or Dutchman arrives in th uk with his laptop, does his nomad thing from now until end of transition, pays no NICs doesn’t tell the taxman he’s there, then tries to apply for settled status. Will he get it? I don’t think so. Eu citizens who have lived and worked in the uk for years and raised a family there are being refused because they have a gap of few months in their national insurance contributions record.
And it’s exactly the same rules for eu citizens in the uk as for uk citizens in the eu.

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