I have been considering for a long long time about buying a maison secondaire in France and I’m still doing lots of research on areas etc so have lots of questions unfortunately and would be really grateful for any info/advice.
We’d only be in France during school breaks (a week in Feb, April, October, January and then a month in the summer) but hoping to go for longer when kids are older and when we retire (about 7-10 years away / we’re Irish so no visa requirements/restrictions etc).
Just wondering how we’d be viewed by the locals in the town. I do speak French (a decent amount but definitely not fluent) and we would do our best to integrate where possible (but being there for such a limited time would mean that we can’t really join clubs etc). Do the French take well to ‘blow-ins’ like us especially given we wouldn’t be there most of the year? Would be always be viewed with sceptism or feel like we’re in a fishbowl always being watched and scrutinised? (I’ve read that some dislike holiday home owners because they push up the demand for houses and therefore the prices making it more expensive for locals to buy houses in the area).
We are looking for something u/80k in a town where there’s a train to connect to either Nantes or Bordeaux and public transport to the beach (even a few hours is fine as long as we can get to the coast at some stage). Currently looking at areas on the Angouleme/Bordeaux trainline etc and if anyone has any suggestions, they’d be really welcome :)). (I’m searching on bien-ici, se loger, logic-immo, trovit, le bon coin)
Also I reckon a holiday house prob costs a 1k a year in terms of taxes, house insurance (small 2/3 bed, terrasse or small garden) - would that be a reasonable estimation (still wondering pros of buying versus just airbnb/holiday rent a property)?
Thanks so much in advance for any guidance - it’s really appreciated.
I can’t answer your main question since I haven’t moved to France yet! but as a side comment I think using AirBnB etc to rent places in areas you are considering is a good idea to get a feel for the area - that’s what I’m doing in the time I have left before I retire.
Nothing worse than buying a house and then deciding you don’t like the area!
We bought in an area that has been depopulating over many years, and have been made very welcome by the locals generally. We visit just 4 weeks per year, try to use the village shop, employ local craftsmen etc.
Don’t forget to expand your search, using the adverts you see, to include the immobiliers who you see advertising on Leboncoin etc. I know that immobiliers in our area sometimes use those sites to show the properties they’re having trouble selling! You get nice properties as well, but the preponderance is the less-attractive ones, at least in our area.
I’d say that was very conservative, but you will find that immobiliers often show the tax liability on annonces on their own websites. You need to budget as well for fuel, water, repairs - and unexpected expenses! If you look at it dispassionately, it’s not a good investment anywhere apart, perhaps, from some cities–but I don’t believe that should put you off. If you find somewhere like @Ancient_Mariner describes, it’s even worse as an investment–but it’s mainly British people who think a house ought to be an investment, and (I think) it’s a terrible mindset!
Remember that being in a terraced house, or even a semi, puts you very close to your neighbours and potential conflict (parking, party walls, property overlooked, fences and trees …), which is much more difficulty to defuse if you’re an incomer and not fluent.
I would agree with most of what’s been said before but would like to add my own experience.
Our house was a maison secondaire for over 20 years before we moved into it permanently. During that time, we came over for holidays, including some long gardening weekends. We never experienced any hostility or resentment and people couldn’t have been more welcoming and supportive.
The only remotely negative experience we had was when my partner tried to get an account at a particular bank and they were polite but just flatly refused. He went to another bank and had no problem at all.
If you are courteous and not loud, you will fit in a treat.
EDIT: Our experience was Normandie so where you are planning on getting somewhere may possibly be different depending on the behaviour of other non-French people in the area.
We had our existing abode (or at least the original small building before increasing the size) from '92 until '99 when we moved in permanently.
We found the neighbours friendly and welcoming and the area at large equally so. However, we had the advantage of being long term petanque players in England beforehand and immediately joined the local club at the outset, so that gave us a particular advantage. On arrival permanently in '99 we had other advantages, I started working for a local firm and we both started attending the local tea dances (The Dansants). This was a further advantage and when I enquired about citizenship at the local sub-prefecture this evidence of cultural emersion was the first thing that was asked about and approved of.
So, to sum up, join in. Simply that, even as an occasional visitor and you will be well setup for your possible permanent move later
One other piece of advice about choosing the location of your house. Visit it in all seasons, the bitter depths of winter as well as the blazing heat of summer. Do not assume that the lazy, hazy life you enjoy in July will be anything other than a real trial by elements in January.
Good advice ChrisMann. I do need to slow down - I’ve been researching for long from afar but you’re right I do need to get a good feel for the area first. Thanks a mill
Great advice re looking at the sites of the immobiliers - will do that (and good point re neighbours - I’ve read of some fierce arguments alright). Many thanks
The Dansants sounds great and a good way to mix. Good idea re visiting at different times - will try to do that (or at least keep in mind the temperatures and how quiet/depressing some places can be in winter). Delighted it’s worked out for you and fingers crossed
I think that is far too general a question because it depends on so many things. What is the area like, how many second homes are there already, is there a housing problem. Do you have things in common with your neighbours ie are you a city person moving to a rural area or do you understand rural ways or vice versa. Basically the French are not horrible people, they will be civil to you and unless there is anything about the situation that upsets them then why would they not welcome you. But there are no guarantees, because yes in some areas holiday home owners are viewed negatively, this is nothing personal against you but you will be affected. And you may find that things that neighbours tolerate in each other, such as barking dogs and noisy kids, will not be so easily tolerated in incomers.
I think that is a serious underestimation. Property taxes (foncière and habitation) alone could easily top that although property taxes do vary enormously. Then you would have the rubbish collection tax, then the monthly standing charges for electricity and water even if your consumption is low.
It’s really good that you’re even thinking this way as suggests you will be sensitive enough to pick up signals before you buy.
There is enormous variation, some areas could be 90% hostile to 2nd homes, other 20% (in rural areas there will always be some). And it is generally to 2nd home owners of all nationalities, particularly citadines - used pejoratively for city dwellers particularly from Paris. It made us laugh when we arrived here as neighbours said to our faces that they were pleased we were not citadines, which of course we were as we came from London.
You may not notice the signs, eg this graffiti is anti- 2nd homes.
Then there’s your nationality. The British are generally well accepted in most areas if they learn the language and are respectful. In our area the Dutch are disliked and there is anti-Dutch graffiti - because they bring in their own artisans and make little use of local shops and services.
But of course if the area you choose has other similar immigrants then you can make friends with them. I think many on here have Dutch and German friends.
Some suggestions
Consider very carefully before buying in a zone tendue. These are mainly urban area but a few are more rural. These are areas with severe housing pressure and eg in the Basque county people can be quite aggressive against second homes
Check the taxe d’habitation situation. Second home owners always pay taxe d’hab but new laws mean that some communes can slap on up to an additional 60% to try to prevent more - a sign that 2nd home owners are not welcome.
Look at the last election results for the commune. It is a truism that communes that vote heavily far right are less likely to be welcoming. If you are white it’s less of an issue but can still be uncomfortable.
Wow that’s an amazing insight and gosh - the images speak volumes. I’ll definitely look at that website and the political veering of a community is a good indication too. Really good to know and to be aware of. Really appreciate this info. Thanks a million
Interestingly, maybe not. Our commune is one of the most right wing in Lot et Garonne yet our neighbouring farmers are just fine with us and have on more than one occasion got us out of a ditch!
It depends what you are looking for in the way of integration. We pretty much keep ourselves to ourselves (we did so in the UK) and that seems to work fine. We have no immediate neighbours so contact is just the occasional gossip standing in a field or in/out of the local supermarket. But I suspect everyone know us - I approached a local smallholder the other day to ask if I could borrow some of his palettes and started to say where I lived and he smiled and said “I know” - mind you we have been here fulltime 16 years.
I belong to a photo club and we have summer visitors, so don’t rule out joining in. Walking clubs I suspect can be the same. As indeed can be French/English conversation clubs.
Find, if you can, an excuse to gauge the welcome at the local mayor’s office, especially if it is a small village. He/she will be very important in your life and an anti-Brit mayor can be difficult to deal with. In fact going in and asking about local clubs can be a good excuse to start a conversation. Ideally you would hope the mayor would come out and chat. We have been incredibly lucky with our mayors - we are on our third - and all have stepped in over the years to enable things to happen for us.
I endorse comments about using local artisans - and pay promptly, but don’t be surprised if they delay asking for it, they are just managing their cashflow.
Also, be seen around local events - vide greniers / night markets / even lotto if you have the courage - then people will know you are part of the local community and not just flying in and flying out to lie by the pool.
That all sounds great Sue - nice to know that you can be part of the community while still having your own space and distance and good to know that it’s possible to join communities even if just over for the summer. The mairie is a great tip and good advise to get to know them. Delighted it’s all going well for you and it definitely is making me feel positive about it all. Many thanks
@Lauren_Red
take your time to find a holiday home which meets all your major requirements…
check out the various areas of France and discard them one by one… until you hit gold.
If you make the effort to speak French (even badly)… and always start with “Bonjour” rather than blurting out the question/whatever… your neighbours will appreciate your politeness and your efforts …
and if you join in local activities as and when you are here… it will be noted and (again) much appreciated… and your neighbours will look forward to your visits.
good luck with your plans…
EDIT re anti-foreigners
from experience, there can be the odd one of two… in any group… but smiles/humour and good manners work wonders…
