I’m disappointed with your comment Porridge. Personally I’d hate to echo the lies of the odious, misogynist and extremist Christian, Huckabee. There is nothing “Jew hating” about this. Indeed there is nothing anti Israel about this, the exact opposite. The only hope for a lasting peace for Israelis and Palestinians is a two state solution. Netanyahu and his like have spent decades, even supporting Hamas, to prevent progress. At last some international attempt is being made to push towards enabling it.
I think Miliband did an excellent job yesterday, as a politician and personally, it was very courageous given his own background. Furthermore, I don’t believe it is just an attempt to garner votes from Zack Polanski, he didn’t need to get France and Canada onboard to do that.
Cynical as I usually am, I respect what he has done. I hope many more countries join the twelve and I hope Israel is pushed into a solution that is good for it and for its Palestinian neighbours. It’s been a long tragic road.
This is unfortunately one of the big issues, evangelical Christianity, wherever in the world, is wall-to-wall Zionism. It didn’t used to be as bad but these days it’s shocking. I watch quite a bit of Christian TV (it’s a sick and twisted hobby ) and I am frequently taken aback by how much these supposed Christian channels have become little more than propaganda for Israel. There’s a British one that seems to have some bit of pro-israel propaganda on every evening. Ten years ago it was Shabbat meals and talk of the holy land, vaguely normal, if eccentric, stuff, today it’s outright “we must support Israel, this month we’re tithing to an Israeli foundation” and you’re thinking ‘arent there plenty of British charities on desperate need of that money in the current climate?’. From others who keep an eye on things many churches are going the same way too. I do tend to think these pressures are equally as influential as the "friends of Israel’ type groups in applying pressure to go governments sadly.
We spoke before about Ed and I was cynical about whether he’d do what was necessary, despite me being certain he’s a good, honourable, very smart guy, but so far I am very impressed. Let’s hope the pressures on him don’t become too strong that he capitulates. I was the only person on earth I think who was impressed with him as Labour leader l, and I hope he has the chance to show the country what they missed out on.
Stop watching “Christian tv”, because it’s unlikely to do you personally any good, and certainly don’t fall for the idea that it represents anything other than a subset of evangelicalism.
I would not watch Christian tv channels because I don’t like the culture.
You may as well say that GB News represents the entirety of British political thought.
And don’t fall for the idea that whatever is said by people you hate must automatically be wrong.
And why not address the point I made: everyone hates Jews because of the evil Israel does, everyone loves Islam despite the evil Hamas does?
Few love Islam, some protest about it but most have little interest in it. Some of us get angry at the events that happen in Israel and Palestine but only a tiny minority applause the atrocities that Hamas, the Israeli state and the settlers have been committing.
There are Jewish people involved in this forum. Do you see the rest waving pitchforks and flaming torches at them? Rather they often seem as horrified as the rest of us at what Israel is doing.
You seem very odd and quite intensely anti-islam but not anti-cruelty. It almost affirms the point about evangelicals, even though I know it’s not an accurate reflection.
You’re right, the left (Labour, Greens et al) might not love Islam given how it treats minorities, but it certainly courts it. Hence the introduction of a definition of Islamophobia.
As to what people who don’t express an opinion believe, you can’t presume what they think. It’s far more likely that they see the prevailing mindset and keep their heads down!
PS I’m not defending Israel, as I made clear here and elsewhere. My point was rather that some people take out their hatred of Israel/what it does on Jewish people in a way that (thank goodness) people generally don’t do to Muslims.
How many Muslim schools need security, compared to Jewish ones?
The teacher who showed his pupils the infamous cartoon of Mohammed is still in hiding.
There’s a lot to unpack there, although I’ll leave some of that for later.
It seems that often what you write isn’t what you mean, and somehow the meaning is lost. So the post I replied to didn’t look exactly like defending Israel, but did look like wanting to attack Muslims, and asking why people were cross with Israel for doing so when they approved of Muslims attacking Israel. It might also help a little to make clear whether it’s the SF community you’re focusing on or wider society too, although that was obvious in this case.
That’s how to combat antisemitism, break the link (created purposefully by Israeli propaganda over many decades) between jewish people everywhere and what the genocidal religious manics running Israel are doing now.
Edit: Equally supportive articles in Haaretz today, sadly behind the paywall so I can’t share.
Edit II: A headline from Haaretz… " Israeli Judges Fear Presiding Over Special Hamas Tribunal Could Expose Them to Sanctions"
Genocide and ethnic cleansing is coming home to roost
That’s not quite what the claim is, though, if I read it correctly.
The article says that someone made the Israeli government aware that an attack was being prepared. But that is true all the time in that region where each side seeks the extermination of the other.
And what the BBC is doing here is blaming the victim. That’s the moral equivalent of “Well, she shouldn’t have been wearing a short skirt: she should have expected to be assaulted.”
The claim is that someone warned there was a major attack coming. There have been a number of similar documented claims that other nations also warned the Israeli government that an attack was coming, but that’s not directly relevant to this claim.
Separately, it is my expectation that the government of Israel knew the nature of the attack that was coming, and arranged for there to be little resistance to it in order to create the present situation. Mossad are known to be an incredibly capable intelligence service - it is unthinkable that they overlooked this.
Motivation was the desire to remove the Palestinians from their land without international condemnation, and the corruption charges facing Netanyahu. It was an opportunity too good to be missed. This would be unthinkable for any European government, but quite conceivable for an Israeli one - I base this on the actions taken since the attack. As for those killed and held hostage in the attack, people die all the time, and they will be martyrs to the nation.
I understand the argument but, if you’re correct, Israel made a massive miscalculation. The US would always support Israel; the rest of the world would oppose. That remains true irrespective of the October atrocity.
And it’s still blaming the victim for what Hamas did.
This is not victim blaming and Israel was never an innocent teenage girl in a short skirt down a dark alley.
In some ways it’s like 2 dirty street fighters trying to take lumps out of each other, both surrounded by their supporters. One stronger, smarter, gradually making the fight to survive more and more painful for the other who starts doing things unthinkable in normal life. But this misses the mass humanity caught up with the 2 factions, some wanting to just get on and co-exist, some hating deeply, some seeing opportunities for gain.
I remember well the feeling of disbelief, reading a description of those events on the BBC website before it became inaccessible due to traffic.
It’s important to understand why they did that and not just say “because Islam, d’uh”. Was it because they hated western values and could embark on jihad, or were there other reasons? It’s not a simple religious issue, and trying to make it one is not going to be useful. That’s not to say religion wasn’t involved, of course.
I wonder how many Palestinians have been killed by weapons supplied by the US? While it doesn’t make such a celebration okay, it doesn’t put a different perspective on why they might celebrate.
How might we not simply stop the conflict, but enable people to live alongside each other?
Is that the US funded the Mujahideen led by Bin Laden in Afghanistan against the Russians.It morphed into al-Qaeda. Everything was hunky dory when it was only Russians being killed.
I find it ironic that the organisation that carried out the worst terrorist attack on US soil was an organisation the US had nurtured, and the organisation that carried out the worst terrorist attack on Israeli soil was an organisation Israel had nurtured.
If the US people are looking for the root cause for 9/11 they need to look within (including the long US friendship with the foul dictatorship Saudi, the guys who did it) and if Israelis are looking for the root cause of October 7th they need look no further then their Prime Minister and his ilk.
The thugs that flew the planes or pulled the triggers are neither here nor there, just cannon fodder. It’s the politicians that are to blame.
And BTW, that’s equally true in the Russia Ukraine conflict that now has the whole EU moving to a war economy footing. But that’s a whole different discussion
) and I am frequently taken aback by how much these supposed Christian channels have become little more than propaganda for Israel. There’s a British one that seems to have some bit of pro-israel propaganda on every evening. Ten years ago it was Shabbat meals and talk of the holy land, vaguely normal, if eccentric, stuff, today it’s outright “we must support Israel, this month we’re tithing to an Israeli foundation” and you’re thinking ‘arent there plenty of British charities on desperate need of that money in the current climate?’. From others who keep an eye on things many churches are going the same way too. I do tend to think these pressures are equally as influential as the "friends of Israel’ type groups in applying pressure to go governments sadly.
when it was only Russians being killed.