Hello everyone,
I’m hoping there’s another Irish citizen out there that is receiving an annuity from a private pension fund.
We were completing our French Tax forms and entered the annuity in the usual spot. At the end of the forms when the recapitulif screen came up we were informed that, as we claimed to be resident in France all year, the funds “earned in a foreign country” were not compatible with this… We’ve never seen (or should I say “noticed”?!) this before! Can anyone tell me the correct line on forms 2047 and 2042 that we should use to enter this annuity?
Thanks in advance!
Robin
Last year we declared the Irish pensions (both private and pension from the government but not one from a civil service job) on the 2047 K, section Pensions, retraites, rentes on line 1AL/1AM.
I will be going our tax return online soon so I’ll let you know if I have a problem; I wonder if it has anything to do with the “prélèvement à la source” ?
Dominique
On reading this thread… I seem to think you are both talking about different things…
Robin’s Income is from a Private Annuity… and Dominique’s is a Workplace Pension… have I got that right so far??
I’m not sure if they both go in exactly the same box on the Declarations… perhaps an expert like our @Brian_Furzer will be able to enlighten us…
Failing that… a quick word with your local Tax Office will sort the matter out face-to-face… once and for all. (Of course, take paperwork with you to identify what income you are talking about… )
Cheers
No, I did not explain myself properly; it is an annuity we bought from Irish Life with the proceeds of my husband’s pension fund (he was on a defined contribution type of pension).
Dominique
Click the link and ask Brian… @Brian_Furzer
That’s it exactly, Dominique! My husband’s is an annuity that he purchased from Irish Life with money from his company pension fund also. You have been using line 1AL/1AM for this in the past? I would be interested to know if you have any problems this time. The notice that I received is on the final page where you would place your signature if you were ready to submit.
Thanks to both of you for your input!
Robin
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Hello again, this was my last declaration; in previous years it was in box 1AS. I am doing my tax return on Wednesday, I’ll let you know how I get on.
When I have a query, I tend to email the tax office rather than ring them; they usually reply fairly quickly.
Dominique
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Hello again, I am not sure if this will actually help you as I did my declaration via a portal so it has not gone to the tax office yet, but the Irish pensions were put in box 1 AM and it did not throw out an error message.
Dominique
Hi Dominique,
Thank you for letting me know. We file ours via the impots.gouv website. I can always try changing the entry location and see if we get the same warning!!
I have an enquiry in with someone else, too… Hope to have an answer from them soon.
Take care,
Robin
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Hi Dominique,
I’m really sorry to bother you again. I’m having a go at these taxes again today and I’m a little confused. My understanding was that this type of pension was not taxable in France, however, by putting it online 1AM on page 1 of form 2047, it is being put under the “pensions et rentes imposables en France” section of the 2047. Am I mistaken in believing that this annuity is not taxed in France?
Many thanks for your help and advice.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend,
Robin
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No problem; yes, the annuity is taxable in France. Only pensions from a government job (if you were a public or civil servant) is taxable in Ireland.
Are you being taxed in Ireland ? is Irish Life deducting income tax ? if yes, you need to get a form signed here in France and send it to the tax office in Ireland; you get the form IC2 (here : https://www.revenue.ie/en/jobs-and-pensions/documents/form-ic2.pdf)
Is this your first return ?
Dominique
Thank you for the reply. No, this isn’t our first return. We’ve been here 7 years now but have been putting the pension in a different place on the form in the past, without any problem. This year the warning came up and that’s what caused me to investigate.
We’ve been putting it on the last page of form 2047 under “Revenus Exonérés Retenus pour le calul du Taux Effectif”. We were told before we left Ireland that the annuity was taxable in Ireland but the amount he would be receiving was below the taxable threshold. This is what we told whoever helped us with our forms the first year and have been doing it that way ever since. Putting it in this part of the 2047 automatically populates line 8TI under “Divers” on the 2042.
Irish Life does not take any taxes out. However we assumed this might be because the amount was below the threshold…
Oh well, I guess the good news is that the amount received doesn’t seem to be enough to affect taxes that we will need to pay in France!!! I just hope they don’t suspect anything suspicious because we have changed the way we report it!
Thanks again,
Robin
Hi Robin… don’t worry…Tax Folk can be very understanding about things… it’s only if they smell a rat, that they go for the jugular. 
If they do query things, just tell them the plain truth… that’s it…you did what you thought was correct at that time. 
cheers
Hi Dominique,
Here I am again. 
We recently contacted revenue.ie for another question and, since then, Irish Life is now taking tax out of my husband’s annuity. 
Could you tell me if the IC2 form is something I need to send them every year, or is it a one time thing? I’ve downloaded a copy but may have to wait a while before I can get it signed and stamped at the French tax office. Many thanks for your help.
Stay safe in the current environment we’re living in,
Robin
Hi Robin
The IC2 is valid for four years; I posted it to our tax office last time, and they posted it back to me.
I sent a letter with it …
Le certificat d’exemption du service des impôts en Irlande expire … (if you already have had one certificate, otherwise you could put : veuillez trouver ci-joint le formulaire IC2 issue par le service des impôts irlandais.
Merci de remplir la section : TO BE COMPLETED BY THE TAX AUTHORITIES IN YOUR COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE (à faire remplir par le service des impôts de votre pays de résidence)
Ce document est une exemption afin que les impôts ne soient pas retenus à la source en Irlande car il s’agit d’une pension privée (article 14 de la convention entre la France et l’Irlande).
and I also enclosed a copy of the last IC2 in case they did not know what it was about (you never know … )
Good luck with it and stay safe; I was just reading a book that took place around 1944 in the States and every summer, there were polio outbreaks somewhere and the Salk vaccin did not get approval until 1955 ! for 10 years, parents dreaded the summers.
Dominique
