Does anyone know why Impots have increased when we haven’t had to pay in the past and our revenues are the same (and already taxed in UK) ? Are we no longer eligible for the aged abatement?
Is your income taxed in the UK because it’s one of those military or government service pensions that have to be taxed there?
AFAIK there has been no increase in French tax 2021 for 2020 income. Without more detailed information, it is impossible to be helpful other than to ask if you correctly filled in the tax return as respects pension income and if you are resident in France, why are you paying UK tax at all unless it is in respect of UK Government Service pensions covered by the Double Taxation Treaty.
If you believe the assessment to be wrong, you still have an opportinity before the 15th Dec 2021 to correct your return. Have a look through the Tax 2021 topic
Thanks for your replies. Our income is solely from Teachers and State Pensions which are taxed at source ie in UK. We do have a pied-a-terre in UK, so I guess it’s easier for them to be taxed there…?
I may well have completed our revenues in the wrong columns, but I only had to include 1 figure for each of us (under Pensions) so, even with the change of format (which seems to occur every year) it should have been simple to deduce (or maybe I’m being naiive). Any other thoughts/advice welcome!
I’m not an expert and teachers’ pensions may well fall into the category of “must be taxed in the UK” but the State Pension certainly should be taxed in France if you are resident, along with any interest/shares generated in the UK.
If you are in France for more than 6 months a year, you are taxable here and there really isn’t any choice about it!
I think it depends on the scheme you are enrolled to. Some University pensions can be UK taxed only, and some are taxed in the country of residence. My OH has a USS pension, which is taxed in France.
Edit: As @Stella says, even if you are taxed on a pension in the UK, it must still be declared in France on your tax form.
Just in case anyone is confused…
ALL income… no matter what the pension source , investments… whatever
needs to be declared here in France
I think folk can be confused about what sort of pension one is talking about…
and the answer is ALL of 'em…
contact your TAx Office and ask for an appointment… or simply ask the question “why am I now being taxed…” using the online service…
Did you complete the HMRC Form France-Individual? This is essential to the DTT.
In normal circumstances, your State Pension should not be taxed in the UK if you have submitted the Form France-Individual and each of you will have the tax free allowance applied (£12,570 currently?)
No, that seems wrong to be honest. You should look through the link to the completion of the tax return I posted… that explains how you declare UK Govt Service Pensions and UK State pensions.
Your UK pied-à-terre will have no consequence to your French requirement to declare your pension and other income, as @Stella has said - no matter what source.
Do you have an online account with d’impôt?
I agree with @graham on this one @Tanya but actually I rang up HMRC and they revised my tax code to zero for application to the State Pension so if you haven’t completed the form (or they have rejected/ignored it) they are quite helpful if you ring them!
you usually do anyway
Not always, Graham
and they will tell you if your pension is regarded as UK Govt Service too. They are the arbiters in this respect.
Sometimes you also need to check that the change to the tax code is persistent too. One year, HMRC fouled up and both our Service pensions were taxed incorrectly alongside the State Pensions which should not have been taxed under the DTT. It was corrected right away by HMRC and they issued new codes to the respective providers who repaid the tax taken inappropriately at the next pay date. Essential to keep on top of your tax situation and have matters put right at the first opportunity (whether French impôts or HMRC).
Thanks again for all your replies. I’m just a bit confused as neither HMRC or the French system seem to say different things. I think I’ll wait till the French Impots give me a rendezvous (have asked for one via their website) and then I’ll ask HMRC. Maybe I should get a tax advisor who is fully up-to-date with both systems.
Anyone know one?!
If you haven’t already done so, download the Form France-Individual, complete it and take it with you to the RDV where they can stamp it ready for you to send back to HMRC. The form also allows you to claim back any tax from HMRC which you have paid incorrectly. France impôts are not able to do anything about tax you have paid in the UK. Any refund comes from HMRC.
You shouldn’t need one as it sounds as if your affairs are quite straightforward. As far as I can see the French and UK systems say the same things. The only problem is regarding non-earned income which can end up taxed twice, but earned income is taxed in France (zero code in UK) apart from Government Pensions.
What is also confusing is that “State Pension” in France means a pension paid for people working in the State. When I talked to the tax office here in France, I was told that what Brits call a State Pension is referred to as an “old age pension” from the French point of view, since it doesn’t relate to government service.
@Tanya Don’t get the impôts confused with differences in terminology. Your TP’s are more than likely UK Government Service pensions (and thus not taxed under the DTT) - not State pensions (which ARE covered by the DTT) - essential not to get the two confused. The UK State pension is NOT a Government pension.
Both are declarable in France but in different places on the return .
Old Age Pension (UK State Pension) is declared for person 1 in box 1AM (person 2 in 1BM) on Form 2042 and Government Service pension in two places: Person 1 1AL & 8TK, Person 2 1BL & 8TK (along with person 1) on forms 2042 and 2042C
As @AngelaR suggests, there is no real need for a tax advisor if your income is UK pension based and this simple. Best to go armed with your Avis, records of pension receipts (converted to Euro) and any other records you might have. The French fisc are not ogres and will help you get it sorted but there are things you must do in preparation - like the FF-I so all your ducks will be lined up in a row for next year.
I fully intend to republish the advice on how to complete your online tax return next year (as it was so popular this year) so keep a note in your diary to look out for it…
One further point… do you have any bank accounts outside of France and did you declare them on cerfa 3916. If not and you have, get the details prepared now to take with you!
Merci mille fois,
I just hope the tax office here (in Saumur) replies to my written message on their site for a rdv since their phone only relays messages which aren’t at all helpful.
The window is open until 15th December. August is traditionally a low month for fiscal activity so you may not get a response until September.
Do please keep us updated (bookmark this topic to make it easier) and don’t be afraid to ask if something else comes to mind in the meantime.
Hooray, I have just received a message inviting me to correct our entries as I’ve obviously put them in the wrong columns! Or I can go there in person (no need for a rdv, apparently, but think I’ll have to go there either very early or lunch-time to avoid a long queue).
However, I could try completing it in the columns you suggested Graham and hope for the best or pay you a visit !