Innovative ideas on house selling in France!

People living in a country should speak the language. Don't blame the sites for being francophone.

a) you say that agents are honest

b) you say that the sites I've quoted are set up by agencies who wish to gain credence ... why would they need to do that if they were honest? That's no different to a potential purchaser who sends a friend. Both techniques have a Trojan horse element to them.

Once again you have a grievance against my proposing several sites. Whatever happened to vive la différence ? Perhaps you don't like having to choose. Please explain.

I have bought and sold many properties, and whenever I use a peer-to-peer site I have no trouble whatsoever avoiding agents. ' agences s'abstenir' isn't hard to memorize.

I don't need to double-deal as about a third of the properties I've had came to my knowledge by word of mouth via friends or people I've met while working. No agent required, honest or otherwise.

If people choose to believe that estate-agents in France are all honest, that's their lookout. I've been buying-and-selling for 25 years and have learned that just as in many business fields, if you can cut out the middle man, all the better.

The seller can pay the agency fees. I know because I came across several instances when I was in the trade many years ago. However, most of the time the buyer pays the fees as you say John. This point is confirmed at the Compromis de Vente stage.

Not all agencies charge 'between 6 and 10%' - They can charge less if they so desire and certain agencies in this area have advertised their fees as low as 3%.

It's a dog eat dog profession and anything goes.

No it is not, it is sometimes agreed but it is normally, therefore in the vast majority of cases, that the vendor pays. It is the vendor who has the contract with the agent and not the buyer. The contract stipulates who pays the agent and only exceptionally will that be a buyer when an agreement is reached outside of the contract. Try finding out. Gregor is in the business I believe.

Also, being inflexible with your price is your business but with the market as fickle as it is at present if you set it too high you simply will not sell, so not modifying may be your personal approach but for many people a disaster. There are people in this area who have never even had viewings despite a couple of years using leboncoin then taking on an agent, French people and not foreigners at that who have tried to hold their prices up but the market has eventually forced them down. We have some neighbours in that position who have put the price down below their real value and are only now getting a few viewings. It is a nice house in a good place, lots of land, pool and the works but for too long too highly priced.

People can say what they want, including please stop misleading people.

Since links are so important, have a good look at this one: http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006068387

Anybody not adhering to loi Hoguet shown there is not legit and liable to prosecution, however too many get away with not conforming with the law. That is inexcusable.

Whenever I sell property I decide upon my net selling-price. Whether I use an agency or not, my asking-price will not be modified.

Then the agency adds its commission.

People can say what they want, but in the end it's the purchaser who pays the lot.

Jo - if you cannot pick up the file from the reply above, please send me your email, and I'll send you the info privately. Best wishes Jane

I agree with you that agencies are too expensive, and I am not at all fan. But that is no reason to try and cheat them. Sending a friend to find out the identity of the seller is downright dishonest. You are cheating the agency out of deserved income, thus making the prices go up for everybody else.

The buyer does not pay the agency, but the seller does. I've explained this many times, but the misconception stays afloat. http://blog.immogo.com/2014/04/20/who-pays-the-real-estate-agent-in-france-the-buyer-or-the-seller/

Not always true, indeed many of the best agents neither push nor use any devious methods. Selling oneself limits the vendor to selling to their own language speakers, thus for English speakers without French some of the best potential buyers are lost. The commission level is entirely a matter for negotiation between the agent and the seller, contrary to popular belief, who will pay it, the buyer or the seller is negotiable and part of the mandat de vente, which is a contract that must clearly state the percentage level of commission and who is paying it, otherwise it is invalid.

French courts have judged that where the seller deals directly with a buyer who has been introduced to them by their agent, or uses a proxy to find out the address by using an agent and thus send the eventual buyer negotiate without, in order to avoid paying the commission then it is usually the vendor who is obliged to pay damages and interests to the agent, thus more than the original fees in many cases. Bear in mind as well that whilst some buyers do not like paying the agent’s fees, it is usually to their advantage to do so since that reduces the stamp duty on the property. However, most agents' fees are paid by vendors with commission included in the advertised prices.

Many of the sites and links you have put up are actually put together by agencies to gain credence against competing agencies but are well disguised to look like either independent or official information. They lull people into a sense of false security and people are often ill advised to take many of them seriously. If one agency says look at what our competitors are doing, implies that they are illegal practices that they would never do, then uses those sites to prove their point then people should simply walk away because the chances are very high that the agency has its own scams.

Yes, using leboncoin and such means works but only if people are confident about the business with notaires and other things like the energy and polluting materials type surveys. A good agent will always help or even arrange those things, then when the sale is completed there are things like electricity, water and sometimes gas, buying in other types of fuel, the telephone and a whole mountain of other things that can be done. Any agent who gets the completion over and walks away is not doing their job thoroughly.

Whole rows of links like this are not helpful really, especially if preceded by the first two paragraphs which are in the first instance inaccurate and in the second potentially leading people into trouble and extra costs because of misleading and ultimately dangerous advice.

I am not an agent, by the way. I am well informed by an agent who is successful and does not rip people off or walk away once a sale is pushed through, indeed the pushing seldom works given the average notaire snail pace.

Hello

Please would you let me know how you achieved a direct sale. bobmcneil@aol.com

Many thanks

Bob

With the French system it is the buyer who pays the agency fees and the notary fees. The agent usually wants to sell as promptly as possible, and often tries to pressure the seller. That's good to know if you DO sell via an agency.

One trick, if you're a potential purchaser, is to get a friend to visit the property in order to identify the seller. That avoids you signing the 'fiche de visite'. Then you contact the seller and offer him to share what would have been the agency's fees.

In addition to Jane's good tips, here are a few Web addresses, some of which offer advice, some which are sites for direct sales with either minor or no cost.

SITES for direct sales :

www.vendredirect.com/

http://www.particuliers.be/vendre-sa-maison/ven-sans-agence.asp

http://www2.leboncoin.fr/se?ms=ai#xtor=SEC-700-GOO-[$%20LBC%20-%20Effi%20-%20SN%20-%20Vendre]-[vendre%20Immobilier]-S-[vendre%20immobilier]

- - - - - - - - -

Sites for advice :

www.20minutes.fr

droit-finances.commentcamarche.net

www.zeroagence.fr/

http://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/votre-argent/vendre-logement-se-passer-dagence-immobiliere-704436.html

http://www.immobilier-danger.com/Vendre-sans-agence-immobiliere-362.html

http://www.leparticulier.fr/jcms/p1_1551097/vendre-sans-agence-etes-vous-pret

http://www.pap.fr/conseils/achat-vente/vendre-sans-agence-mode-demploi/a2060

http://www.virtuose-marketing.com/9-etapes-pour-vendre-tout-seul-votre-bien-immobilier-en-moins-de-2-mois-grace-au-copywriting/

I would love to know

Delighted to share the ideas that worked for me! Do contact me further if you have any other questions. Best

I am so interested to learn your secret.