Introduction from the US

Introduce yourselves...
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Hello everyone,

I’ve been quietly reading along for a while and figured it was time to stop lurking and say hello.

My name’s Jim, I’m based in the U.S. and my wife and I are starting to make plans to move to France as I head toward retirement. We keep coming back to the Dordogne (though I suspect many of you have heard that one before), but we’re still exploring and trying to get a realistic sense of what life might actually look like on the ground.

By way of background, I’ve spent my career in fine arts conservation, mostly working on outdoor sculpture and historic materials. So naturally, instead of doing the sensible thing, we’ve fallen in love with the idea of an old stone place that probably needs more work than we fully understand yet. I suppose I can’t help myself.

We’re hoping to find something with a bit of land somewhere we can take on a renovation project and eventually create a home base, with the possibility of small events or a gîte down the line if it makes sense.

At the moment, I’m trying to wrap my head around the practical side of things, renovation realities, drainage and sewage (which already seems more complicated than expected), and generally how to approach this without making expensive mistakes.

I’ve already learned a lot just from reading here, and I really appreciate how generous people are with their knowledge. I’m sure I’ll have plenty of questions as we move forward, and I hope to contribute something useful from my background along the way.

Thanks, and I’m glad to be here.

Jim

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Welcome, @Athos .

I’m sure with a bit of effort you’ll find somewhere more adventurous than Dordogne! I suggest you look along the Loire: there are plenty of towns there.

You’d need the appropriate visa if your plan is to run any sort of business.

Bon courage !

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Hello Jim, I have sent you a private message. Sue

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Old stone places are addictive! Having virtually finished restoring one after a very long time, and swearing not to do it again, we have just moved to another old stone money pit.

Unless you are able and qualified (look at @MikeyPotts posts) to do a lot yourself it is expensive!

But you are in a catch22. To come here and be able to run gîtes you need a working visa. Which means a realistic 3-5 year business plan showing how you will make the equivalent of the minimum wage from the gîte(s) alone. They must be able to stand on their own feet without cash injections.

But of course restoration works take a long time. So you would have to take the risk of buying a property with gîte potential and coming on a visitor visa. And then when all is near-ready apply for the working visa and cross your fingers that you get it.

Also bear in mind that some areas are over-saturated with gîtes and events barns -especially in the Dordogne.

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Thanks for this—really appreciate the perspective.

“Old stone money pit” feels uncomfortably accurate… and yet here we are. I can already tell this is one of those things people swear off, only to go right back to.

Fortunately, I’m pretty comfortable taking on a lot of the work myself; that’s actually part of the draw for me,but I don’t underestimate how long these projects can stretch. That’s probably the piece I’m trying to get my head around the most right now: timing everything without painting ourselves into a corner.

The visa side is exactly the catch I’ve been wrestling with. The idea of needing a fully functioning, income-producing setup before having the right to actually run it is… sobering.

One thing we are exploring is whether I might qualify for an international reputation/talent visa, given my background in conservation. Still early days on that, but if viable, it might give us a bit more flexibility on the timeline rather than forcing everything through a gîte business plan from day one.

And point taken on Dordogne saturation, we are hoping to do something unique (more on that later). It’s easy to get swept up in the region’s appeal without fully understanding the market realities on the ground.

Really helpful to hear this from someone who’s been through it (and then gone back for round two!).

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I live in Dordogne and know probably 3 anglophones (@toryroo being one!) but know there are lots who come here and I think if you want to do gites it’s in your interest to be somewhere that attracts tourists which Dordogne certainly does.

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Not really compatible with retiring tho’? Unless you are George or Amal Clooney (and they do have a business here) you have to be active in using this talent either salaried, self employed or as an investor.

(Round 2 is without a gîte this time, so smaller stone money pit)

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I should have said “retirement lite”:rofl: . Given that the visa will allow both my wife and me to work, I can stick to consulting…

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It’s a balance Vero, yes lots of tourists but equally lots of competition. Sometimes it’s better to widen the net and appeal to more varied market. Depends on one’ reason for doing it I guess.

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I’m just musing randomly, I don’t know anything about the gite biz beyond anecdotal snippets from friends here. Some people do chambres d’hôte and have groups in doing painting courses etc.

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Me too, and I met the other 2 recently after, when my friend down the hill said they were going back to England, I began to think I was the only Englishman left in the commune ! I have no idea about restorations though, I bought a small house and some land around it and paid a builder to double its size. :wink: :grinning_face:

But welcome and I wish you all the best with your project. :grinning_face:

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This is for you

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Agreed, not to mention that, whatever you spend on buying the house in the first place, make sure you have as much again for the restorations. :slight_smile:

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Hi Jim

I moved to the Dordogne near the town of Lalinde a year ago. I have 4 gîtes and have recently jumped through all the immigration and visa hoops - it’s been hard work but worth it. We have found people so helpful. If you need any advice do contact me, Katy

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Hi Katy,

Thanks so much for reaching out It’s great to hear from someone who’s already made the leap, especially in the Dordogne (Lalinde is a beautiful spot).

My wife and I are in the early stages of planning a move to France, with a similar idea in mind—something with a bit of land and the potential for gîtes and small events. We’re still figuring out the best visa path and how to structure things practically once we’re there.

If you’re open to it, I’d love to hear a bit about how you approached the visa process, and anything you wish you’d known before getting started. Also curious how things have been running the gîtes—what’s worked well and what’s been more challenging.

Thanks again for the offer! Hopefully, we can return the favor down the line.

All the best,
Jim

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We have just moved to northern Lot et Garonne so almost Dordogne. It is certainly an area worth looking at and you are welcome to contact me if you would like further info.

Like others we have succumbed to the ‘old stone house’ factor and just bought our third or fourth money pit. Fortunately this is a considerably smaller money pit and I shall be doing 90% of the work myself as ever. There is no gite or ‘maison d’amis’ this time but there is a modest dependance of about 40m2 which has some potential. :winking_face_with_tongue:

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Bonjour Jim - and welcome to the forum , and France !

I’ve lived in Dordogne for about 25 years now; started with a small house in an incredible village; then bought another small one and our holiday rental business was born. I decided that the “gite” description was (at least back then) to be avoided - it was an excellent post-war French idea to convert unused farm properties turned into cheap & cheerful holiday accommodation. We reversed our pitch and went very upmarket, but kept it small. We were soon approached by other owners, asking us to manage their properties for them - and selectively added suitable ones only, to provide a portfolio of 8 altogether.

For the last 22 years we have lived in an early 18th century traditional stone farmhouse, with old barns still intact, and more land than we need. My first advice to you - especially if you are not skilled and experienced in very advanced DIY - forget the idea of going the ‘renovation’ route. Money pit is a truism. The days of buying a heap of old stones and turning it into a dream home are long gone - most of them were bought decades ago (although a few still come to the market eventually). It’s a fools game. Much better is to look for somewhere that someone else has had all the hassle and heartache over. Then you pay only for what you see - not what might, perhaps, at who knows what cost, may one day result in what you want.
This means, of course, that you must get to know the true value of property, wherever you choose to live over here. My Advice #2 is therefore ‘don’t spend more than the resulting property will be worth’. By the same token, therefore, don’t pay someone else over the odds because they got their sums wrong !
Final Advice #3 - take your time - go one step at a time - don’t try to get all of your ducks swimming at once. Such as: rent somewhere first, and tour far & wide - and remember that this 1st step is not a vacation visit . . . . next; visit as many properties in your chosen region as you can - you will become a specialist in your own type of home . . . finally: don’t even think of starting any kind of business (gites or otherwise) until you are settled.

I wish you both ‘Bon Courage’ - you’ll have fun and frustration in equal measure - but it’s worth it, to become part of this extraordinary country and people.
Michael

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Hi Jim

We chose different visas. My husband is on a VLS-TS long stay visa as he still has a family business back in the UK. So I came over on a profession/libérale visa as a micro-entrepreneur. Another option popular with American ex-pats is the Talent visa. You can apply for this if you are investing over 300,000 euros in a business, but please note, the French government still doesn’t see running a gîte as a business. It has to be more than 3 gîtes, and to be fair you do need that to guarantee you are getting an income that hits the French minimum wage, or SMIC.

My advice is get professional help. If you are starting a business you will need to submit a three-year detailed business plan for approval BEFORE the visa application. I highly recommend Valerie Aston at www.startbusinessinfrance.com - she walks you through the process and afterwards you can join her ‘manage my microentrepreneur course’ which I did and it was really good.

For house hunting…. Buyer beware! A lot of buyers think, gosh isn’t land cheap in France and find themselves saddled with hectares of land with no previous land-management skills. You must look after your land in France, especially in fire risk zones and practise débroussaillage (look that one up!). And get a survey done and understand that just because a French house is sold to you in perfect condition the term ‘perfect’ means something entirely different in France. Something along the lines of : it’s got a roof, what more did you want? We had a massive power surge here back on October and we are only just about ready to move back into the main house. That’s a story I’ll tell over a bucket of wine. In short, the electrical safety certificate is not worth the paper it is written on. Get your wiring checked.

Also, ask yourself if this is what you want. I’m on LinkedIn Katy Bellamy or Katarina Bellamy or you can see my website at www.cours-du-fleuve.com and my phone number is one there.
I say this because you need good people skills and oodles of patience. Guests are 99% fabulous but there’s always one…!

We bought a pre-existing business with four gîtes and 2 pools as I am a swimmer and wanted a pool to myself. I can give you a crash course on pool maintenance. Thankfully they also came with a local cleaning lady. I also help with the cleaning but I work it so that in the summer two of the gîtes have a changeover on Saturdays, two on Fridays. Sorry, went off track there - an option is to buy a pre-existing business with a track record. I think there is a website called buy a gîte.com.

Also another faux pas buyers make is to get their grand chateau in the middle of nowhere then wonder why they don’t get bookings, you need to have a good location with facilities nearby. The Dordogne is a very competitive market.

So my first year was pretty good. This year has been a bit slow. In fact I’ve had 2 cancellations thanks to a certain Orange donut starting a war with Iran - and that is something else you need to factor in - if global events affect tourism how will you cope? It’s good to mention that in your visa application.

Once you get your visas you then have to jump through the Office of immigration and integration. Talent visas don’t have to do this but it does come and bite them in the bum at the end when they go to apply for the ten year residency and discover they need French at B1 level. So get started on your French now. If you come on a profession liberal visa OFII will contact you (eventually). You will need to have a medical, attend an initial OFII interview where your French will be assessed. You then have to attend four OFII training days and then sit a civics exam and a French exam. You have three years to do this in but I sat my civics exam in March (39/40 and passed) and I have my French exam in July.

It’s a lot to deal with in your first year. One thing I have learnt is French bureaucracy is enough to drive you bonkers. Even the French hate it. My advice? Before tackling any French administration open a bottle of wine, drink it, then open another.

I do sometimes feel like the last 14 months have been an extreme test of endurance. Just asking around it takes about 3 years to settle into a routine where you start to carve out time for yourself instead of slaving over the gîtes. Is it worth it? Hell yes! I am loving every second of it. I have loads more advice and you are welcome to pick my brains. We also do longer stays here for people who are house hunting or visa applying and of course you’ll get mates rates.

That’s it , must sign off as the sun is past the old yard arm and it’s time to uncork something,

Katy

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Sorry, in all the waffle forgot to add my home email address is drkatyb@icloud.com

Katy

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Hi Katy, given that this is an open forum (to any and every spammer in the world) you might want to keep your personal email private. Perhaps send a PM?

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